1 00:00:03,770 --> 00:00:02,030 that hits me oh my gosh this is that 2 00:00:04,999 --> 00:00:03,780 triangle you know there's explanation 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:05,009 for everything that occurred in the 4 00:00:08,780 --> 00:00:06,330 Rendlesham forest incident 5 00:00:11,450 --> 00:00:08,790 it doesn't involve aliens at all it was 6 00:00:15,020 --> 00:00:11,460 completely silent it comes right over 7 00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:15,030 our head it's so classic flying-saucer 8 00:00:18,439 --> 00:00:16,830 really standing in the clearing he 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:18,449 turned over to my father and held his 10 00:00:24,310 --> 00:00:20,130 hand and he looked in his eyes and said 11 00:00:30,470 --> 00:00:28,040 welcome to podcast UFO for our live show 12 00:00:32,749 --> 00:00:30,480 we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m. 13 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:32,759 Eastern Standard Time please remember to 14 00:00:39,709 --> 00:00:36,390 visit the website podcast UFO calm for 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:39,719 past episodes blogs and forums during 16 00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:41,610 the show feel free to participate live 17 00:00:46,459 --> 00:00:44,160 in our chat room and don't forget to 18 00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:46,469 like us on our very active Facebook page 19 00:00:52,130 --> 00:00:49,860 hello and welcome to the show this is 20 00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:52,140 Martyn Willis your host and these are 21 00:00:59,750 --> 00:00:56,160 exciting times to have a UFO show I'm 22 00:01:01,880 --> 00:00:59,760 really glad I have a microphone and not 23 00:01:04,340 --> 00:01:01,890 I'm not the guy on the pulpit but other 24 00:01:06,289 --> 00:01:04,350 people maybe and they're invited on the 25 00:01:08,570 --> 00:01:06,299 show but I'm the guy who will be 26 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:08,580 interviewing some people that have 27 00:01:14,539 --> 00:01:12,330 really good weigh ins on what's been 28 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:14,549 going on ever since that story was 29 00:01:20,270 --> 00:01:18,330 released in the New York Times it's been 30 00:01:23,570 --> 00:01:20,280 a different world I think so 31 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:23,580 Alejandro Rojas who typically joins us I 32 00:01:29,899 --> 00:01:27,330 just found out he's taking an extended 33 00:01:31,580 --> 00:01:29,909 Christmas vacation and speaking of 34 00:01:33,350 --> 00:01:31,590 Christmas I hope all of you that 35 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:33,360 celebrate Christmas had a wonderful one 36 00:01:38,690 --> 00:01:36,780 and it'll be New Year's Eve before the 37 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:38,700 next show so I hope you have a very safe 38 00:01:45,710 --> 00:01:41,250 and wonderful New Year's Eve coming up 39 00:01:48,530 --> 00:01:45,720 so the show tonight we have Stanton 40 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:48,540 Friedman and Cathy Martin and they're 41 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:51,329 going to in the first hour or so we're 42 00:01:57,289 --> 00:01:53,310 going to be weighing in on the 43 00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:57,299 pentagon's UFO search and then after 44 00:02:00,889 --> 00:01:58,110 that we're going to be talking 45 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:00,899 exclusively about the Betty and Barney 46 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:03,390 Hill case that's something I've never 47 00:02:08,690 --> 00:02:06,090 really done with these two together so 48 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:08,700 that'll be exciting and we are taking 49 00:02:11,890 --> 00:02:10,170 calls if you have a pen and paper and 50 00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:11,900 you're listening live 51 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:14,209 you want to call later on in the show 52 00:02:22,990 --> 00:02:19,450 after the first half-hour dial 603 967 53 00:02:25,509 --> 00:02:23,000 403 oh and would love to get some 54 00:02:29,619 --> 00:02:25,519 questions in in the first hour of the 55 00:02:32,619 --> 00:02:29,629 show regarding this the pentacon the 56 00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:32,629 Pentagon UFO search that would be a 57 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:36,049 great thing so welcome to the show both 58 00:02:40,750 --> 00:02:37,670 Cathy and Stan I'm so glad to have you 59 00:02:46,229 --> 00:02:40,760 on great to be back 60 00:02:48,399 --> 00:02:46,239 yes that's right so I was thinking about 61 00:02:52,479 --> 00:02:48,409 you just wondering what your thoughts 62 00:02:55,690 --> 00:02:52,489 were when all of this was kind of going 63 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:55,700 down stand so what do you think about 64 00:03:01,899 --> 00:02:58,810 this whole thing well I was frankly 65 00:03:04,569 --> 00:03:01,909 enormously surprised I was delighted I 66 00:03:06,970 --> 00:03:04,579 thought it was handled very well I was 67 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:06,980 surprised as a matter of fact I had 68 00:03:13,839 --> 00:03:10,730 heard Tom DeLonge I read his book and I 69 00:03:16,839 --> 00:03:13,849 know he seemed to be short on evidence a 70 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:16,849 lot of story but I think he handled this 71 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:20,480 release extremely well and the other 72 00:03:25,629 --> 00:03:23,209 guys with him Elizondo and so forth I 73 00:03:29,559 --> 00:03:25,639 was very impressed it's the most 74 00:03:33,789 --> 00:03:29,569 impressive single UFO event I've seen in 75 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:33,799 a very long time and I was very pleased 76 00:03:38,860 --> 00:03:34,609 about it 77 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:38,870 lot of things that we didn't talk about 78 00:03:45,610 --> 00:03:43,370 that they didn't talk about but still it 79 00:03:48,369 --> 00:03:45,620 looked like a whole new ballgame to tell 80 00:03:51,699 --> 00:03:48,379 you the truth you know like when 81 00:03:54,129 --> 00:03:51,709 government guys with fancy titles come 82 00:03:58,599 --> 00:03:54,139 on board and say we had the secret 83 00:04:02,229 --> 00:03:58,609 program going for what five years that's 84 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:02,239 pretty big news because it's a long time 85 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:05,449 and you can't help but respond to them 86 00:04:11,949 --> 00:04:09,290 they're not guys making up stories I was 87 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:11,959 so impressed to see Harry Reid he was a 88 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:14,510 senator for 30 years for goodness sakes 89 00:04:21,789 --> 00:04:19,130 right the majority leader uh when he 90 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:21,799 comes on so straight and square and you 91 00:04:29,189 --> 00:04:25,270 know this was a good 92 00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:29,199 and I you know I I was how shall I put 93 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:29,560 this 94 00:04:36,749 --> 00:04:32,770 I'm a very forward kind of guy I'm not 95 00:04:41,999 --> 00:04:36,759 accountable to anybody but me and so I 96 00:04:44,129 --> 00:04:42,009 was disappointed in a sense that none of 97 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:44,139 the other people were quite willing to 98 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:47,110 go out on the limb of saying alien they 99 00:04:51,330 --> 00:04:49,090 almost got there but they stopped short 100 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:51,340 I think they're still thinking that 101 00:04:57,210 --> 00:04:53,710 people won't accept that and I don't 102 00:05:00,600 --> 00:04:57,220 that viewpoint I've been out there you 103 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:00,610 know nobody's talked in more places and 104 00:05:05,309 --> 00:05:03,370 more hours than I have I don't think and 105 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:05,319 I just don't worry I don't get a hard 106 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:07,810 time for saying some UFOs or alien 107 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:09,370 spacecraft remember you got to ask the 108 00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:10,330 right questions 109 00:05:14,899 --> 00:05:13,000 nobody's saying all UFOs are really in 110 00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:14,909 spacecraft I hope nobody's saying that 111 00:05:24,089 --> 00:05:21,030 but so I was a little put off by the 112 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:24,099 pussyfooting around so to speak you 113 00:05:29,670 --> 00:05:25,750 notice how he avoided the word alien 114 00:05:32,370 --> 00:05:29,680 yeah eating he and so forth but that's 115 00:05:35,010 --> 00:05:32,380 okay okay well make their feet get 116 00:05:36,899 --> 00:05:35,020 wetter they'll realize it's okay so I 117 00:05:38,670 --> 00:05:36,909 think it's a whole new ballgame in 118 00:05:42,629 --> 00:05:38,680 ufology I just wish I was 20 years 119 00:05:45,089 --> 00:05:42,639 younger yeah yeah well you know I agree 120 00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:45,099 I heard George Knapp say you know it's 121 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:47,110 changed everything and you know I think 122 00:05:52,890 --> 00:05:51,490 it has you know and as far as what 123 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:52,900 you're saying there about the alien 124 00:05:59,040 --> 00:05:55,330 aspect of it or the possibility of it I 125 00:06:00,600 --> 00:05:59,050 noticed that a lot of times when you 126 00:06:03,570 --> 00:06:00,610 know it doesn't matter who is being 127 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:03,580 interviewed the interviewer is trying to 128 00:06:13,830 --> 00:06:06,310 corner people into saying that have you 129 00:06:17,730 --> 00:06:13,840 noticed that nobody took the bait so to 130 00:06:20,339 --> 00:06:17,740 speak but that's okay look it took me a 131 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:20,349 long while when I first got started to 132 00:06:25,140 --> 00:06:24,310 realize that it's okay to stand up and 133 00:06:27,629 --> 00:06:25,150 be counted 134 00:06:29,820 --> 00:06:27,639 to put your facts on the table to draw a 135 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:29,830 conclusion and I know there are a lot of 136 00:06:33,719 --> 00:06:31,449 people still don't want to do that 137 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:33,729 they're afraid for some reason well you 138 00:06:37,649 --> 00:06:35,770 got to lose I don't have anything to 139 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:37,659 lose because I'm only accountable to me 140 00:06:42,750 --> 00:06:39,160 yeah I'll pick 141 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:42,760 - sometimes so Kathy let's hear you're a 142 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:45,570 pundit book oh pardon me pardon me oh 143 00:06:50,460 --> 00:06:48,310 yeah Kathy let's hear what your thoughts 144 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:50,470 are on I know you've been following this 145 00:06:57,450 --> 00:06:54,310 real closely as well yes in the 146 00:07:01,170 --> 00:06:57,460 beginning I was cautiously pleased 147 00:07:04,910 --> 00:07:01,180 I wanted to nor know more about it and 148 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:04,920 to to know for certain that this was not 149 00:07:12,090 --> 00:07:08,410 some kind of misinformation or 150 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:12,100 disinformation and the more I learned 151 00:07:20,610 --> 00:07:16,810 the more elated I became because this 152 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:20,620 was a study that had three dozen thick 153 00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:24,010 reports with hundreds of pages in each 154 00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:27,640 report and three dozen technical reports 155 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:31,390 to go along with them so there is a lot 156 00:07:39,780 --> 00:07:37,360 of information there and of course a lot 157 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:39,790 of it's still classified we'll see how 158 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:43,930 much can be declassified and as I was 159 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:48,130 listening I I noted that Lewis Elizondo 160 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:51,970 would say this is what I can tell you 161 00:07:57,390 --> 00:07:54,610 and of course I can't go further than 162 00:08:00,750 --> 00:07:57,400 that because it's still classified so 163 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:00,760 that was important for me to hear I know 164 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:06,940 that the there is a lot more I the fact 165 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:11,890 that this was tracked by the most 166 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:15,910 sophisticated radar system in the world 167 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:20,820 I think is really very important 168 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:25,090 it's it takes millions of dollars just 169 00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:30,160 to train the military people who use the 170 00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:34,840 the weapon sensor it's what is it called 171 00:08:45,060 --> 00:08:36,760 advanced targeting forward-looking 172 00:08:48,660 --> 00:08:45,070 infra-red pod but it is the most 173 00:08:53,090 --> 00:08:48,670 powerful tracking lasers in the world 174 00:08:58,050 --> 00:08:53,100 and that's really important because 175 00:09:01,070 --> 00:08:58,060 Harry Reid did make the statement quote 176 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:01,080 I'm very glad because now we have 177 00:09:07,950 --> 00:09:04,750 scientific evidence so he was actually 178 00:09:11,180 --> 00:09:07,960 willing to say that he was willing to 179 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:11,190 take that step and that's really 180 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:16,030 important too and I would encourage all 181 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:19,030 of these men who are working on this 182 00:09:29,310 --> 00:09:24,850 project to take a look at our history of 183 00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:29,320 the investigation of flying discs dating 184 00:09:37,190 --> 00:09:33,280 back to 1947 we have a tremendous amount 185 00:09:41,610 --> 00:09:37,200 of evidence that these things have been 186 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:41,620 investigated in 1947 by the air material 187 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:46,750 command and way back then they said that 188 00:09:54,210 --> 00:09:51,910 they could out fly anything that we had 189 00:09:58,020 --> 00:09:54,220 that they were real and not visionary of 190 00:10:01,770 --> 00:09:58,030 fictitious shaped like a disc largest 191 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:01,780 man-made craft they had extreme rates of 192 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:05,710 climb and maneuverability they were 193 00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:08,950 metallic or light reflecting they were 194 00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:12,040 circular or elliptical flat on the 195 00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:16,960 bottom domed on the top so they did 196 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:20,070 quite an extensive study way back in 197 00:10:27,330 --> 00:10:23,680 1947 and they're the big question they 198 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:27,340 were asking then is could this be 199 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:31,090 Russia's aircraft they did investigate 200 00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:32,890 that and then they found out that it 201 00:10:41,250 --> 00:10:35,440 didn't belong to the Soviet Union 202 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:41,260 so what could they say by deduction is 203 00:10:48,450 --> 00:10:45,010 that it was nothing that they knew of 204 00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:48,460 that was manufactured on our planets and 205 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:52,750 was far superior to what we have and 206 00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:55,330 that's the same thing that they're 207 00:11:00,420 --> 00:10:58,630 saying today in this new study so I 208 00:11:03,420 --> 00:11:00,430 would hope that they would go back and 209 00:11:05,850 --> 00:11:03,430 take a look at this because there's a 210 00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:05,860 lot of evidence that they really should 211 00:11:09,270 --> 00:11:06,790 look at 212 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:09,280 including project Bluebook special 213 00:11:17,130 --> 00:11:12,730 report number 14 and Stan you might want 214 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:17,140 to well one of the things that was 215 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:18,730 interesting about the program is that 216 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:22,570 the things that weren't included there 217 00:11:29,310 --> 00:11:24,610 was no reference to general wohlander 218 00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:29,320 statement Air Force general 1968 reports 219 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:31,870 of UFOs which could affect national 220 00:11:39,210 --> 00:11:35,710 security are not part of the Blue Book 221 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:39,220 system all right that was an incredible 222 00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:42,040 statement and if we close Project Blue 223 00:11:47,370 --> 00:11:44,380 Book this was in 1968 we didn't know 224 00:11:48,990 --> 00:11:47,380 about until ten years later but he 225 00:11:50,190 --> 00:11:49,000 simply closed Project Blue Book the 226 00:11:52,140 --> 00:11:50,200 public won't have a place to report 227 00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,150 sightings however as previously noted 228 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:54,240 reports which could affect national 229 00:11:58,260 --> 00:11:56,650 security will continue to be 230 00:12:01,080 --> 00:11:58,270 investigated using the procedures 231 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:01,090 designed for that purpose that was way 232 00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:05,290 back then and so it was it was kind of 233 00:12:13,010 --> 00:12:10,110 funny that not as I was mentioned and 234 00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:13,020 special report fourteen wasn't mentioned 235 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:17,320 there are a number of things that we 236 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:20,410 have to recognize here though look at 237 00:12:24,420 --> 00:12:22,570 the titles of those what was it five 238 00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:24,430 guys who were speaking out I was on 239 00:12:28,950 --> 00:12:26,710 though and so forth very impressive to 240 00:12:30,780 --> 00:12:28,960 me anyway mm-hm 241 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:30,790 you know we're talking about the first 242 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:34,840 team here not guys who came along for 243 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:38,560 the ride and they had guts and I was 244 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:40,810 delighted to see that we haven't had 245 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:42,970 that kind of people put up in front of 246 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:46,330 the public really before do you think I 247 00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,250 don't think I can't be no a time when 248 00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:50,800 such impressive people were put in front 249 00:12:57,330 --> 00:12:54,390 of us and so I and of course you 250 00:13:03,150 --> 00:12:57,340 expected some of the nonsense from dr. 251 00:13:06,510 --> 00:13:03,160 Tyson for example and the Senate 252 00:13:08,430 --> 00:13:06,520 community can't seem to understand that 253 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:08,440 there might be reasons for aliens who 254 00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:10,210 want to come to Planet Earth 255 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:12,460 they talk about all aliens would do 256 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:14,410 would be to walk around have fun meet 257 00:13:20,010 --> 00:13:15,970 people blah blah blah 258 00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:20,020 hey this is a planet on which 50 million 259 00:13:26,070 --> 00:13:20,710 people work 260 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:26,080 killed in a war one more 50 million yeah 261 00:13:31,710 --> 00:13:29,530 it you know it's a planet on which two 262 00:13:35,790 --> 00:13:31,720 thousand nuclear warheads have been 263 00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:35,800 exploded that means that we know about 264 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:39,910 nuclear fusion fusion can be used to go 265 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:41,770 to the Stars so everybody in the 266 00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:43,180 neighborhood knows it's a bunch of 267 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:44,860 idiots over there on earth 268 00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:48,760 and look they should be able to get here 269 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:52,630 that's not a happy so I you know so 270 00:13:58,500 --> 00:13:56,110 there's a real world here part of a 271 00:14:03,780 --> 00:13:58,510 local galactic neighborhood I like to 272 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:03,790 call it AI and so I'm pleased that this 273 00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:06,130 took on a whole new tone don't don't you 274 00:14:12,530 --> 00:14:07,480 think it said Kathy it sounded different 275 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:12,540 to me it absolutely did in in the past 276 00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:18,930 we've had a little bit said by 277 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:22,000 politicians for example or or maybe 278 00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:26,560 scientists but but not a great deal but 279 00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:31,120 now the the Academy the Stars Academy of 280 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Arts and Science has some pretty 281 00:14:40,980 --> 00:14:37,930 high-powered people now Chris Belen 282 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:40,990 who's part of the melon family former 283 00:14:45,570 --> 00:14:43,030 assistant secretary of defense for 284 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:45,580 security and information operations and 285 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:49,330 intelligence policy help put off that's 286 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:50,620 it I don't know if you've heard of his 287 00:14:57,090 --> 00:14:54,310 name be mark but that is a big name the 288 00:15:00,030 --> 00:14:57,100 CIA's extrasensory perception project 289 00:15:03,420 --> 00:15:00,040 remote viewing at Stanford Institute 290 00:15:06,780 --> 00:15:03,430 with other big names like Ingo Swann and 291 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:06,790 Russell Targ that's I'm really glad that 292 00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:09,310 he's there because that's going to be 293 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:15,000 very important Stephen justice from 294 00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:17,710 Lockheed Martin skunkworks 295 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:21,520 Jim Sullivan CIA director of operations 296 00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:24,070 you have some high-powered people in 297 00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:26,620 Lewis Elizondo who of course was the 298 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:29,980 Pentagon official who ran the advanced 299 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:33,890 aerospace threat identification program 300 00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:37,490 and they stated 22 million bucks yes I 301 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:39,800 know which is numbers on these things 302 00:15:47,290 --> 00:15:41,930 you know I heard someone say that's like 303 00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:47,300 a few lunches at the Pentagon well yeah 304 00:15:50,350 --> 00:15:48,800 I mean let me give you a number to 305 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:50,360 compare it to when I was working on 306 00:15:57,460 --> 00:15:55,790 nuclear airplanes in 1958 our budget 307 00:16:01,300 --> 00:15:57,470 that year at General Electric was a 308 00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,310 hundred million dollars and we're 3400 309 00:16:06,670 --> 00:16:04,160 people 1958 310 00:16:08,350 --> 00:16:06,680 that's like then we employed thirty four 311 00:16:11,079 --> 00:16:08,360 hundred people of whom eleven hundred 312 00:16:14,019 --> 00:16:11,089 were engineers and scientists so there 313 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:14,029 have been huge programs but for UFO 314 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:16,850 research over a five year period and 315 00:16:21,819 --> 00:16:19,370 this is the first time we really had 316 00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:21,829 definitive statement about security 317 00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:24,440 levels did you notice that they made a 318 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:28,160 real point of saying that this was top 319 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:28,730 secret 320 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:32,890 and so forth and in the past I've heard 321 00:16:38,439 --> 00:16:36,529 quote experts unquote say that there's 322 00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:38,449 nothing classified about flying saucers 323 00:16:44,259 --> 00:16:40,399 we've been told everything that's going 324 00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:44,269 on and that's obviously baloney and I 325 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:46,760 was glad to see it come out that way I 326 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:49,670 mean that hey here's the real story and 327 00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:51,290 there's more to it and we haven't gotten 328 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:53,750 that out yet oh yeah are we gonna see 329 00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:56,570 all those reports not on that there's 330 00:17:02,110 --> 00:16:58,010 there's supposed to be twelve more 331 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:02,120 videos or twelve altogether which will 332 00:17:05,289 --> 00:17:03,740 be really exciting and I want to talk a 333 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:05,299 little bit about the videos in just a 334 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:07,130 minute but one thing I want to bring up 335 00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:09,530 is um you know I'm sure that you were 336 00:17:16,329 --> 00:17:12,799 paying attention both you Kathy and Stan 337 00:17:18,189 --> 00:17:16,339 when this thing came out in October it's 338 00:17:20,409 --> 00:17:18,199 just I find it kind of interesting 339 00:17:22,210 --> 00:17:20,419 Alejandra and I were talking wow this is 340 00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:22,220 a guy from the government and you know 341 00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:24,260 we're talking on our show both of our 342 00:17:31,090 --> 00:17:28,150 shows about how how substantial this was 343 00:17:33,610 --> 00:17:31,100 but it it didn't really get the push 344 00:17:36,430 --> 00:17:33,620 until it that wonderful article came out 345 00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:36,440 in New York Times and I'm just wondering 346 00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:39,260 I mean it really makes you wonder why no 347 00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,020 other media picked it up until you know 348 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:44,559 Leslie Kane got involved along with 349 00:17:52,090 --> 00:17:47,330 Richard Blum I mean I'm sorry 350 00:17:55,509 --> 00:17:52,100 Blumenthal Ralph Blumenthal and yeah so 351 00:17:57,730 --> 00:17:55,519 but anyway why do you think it it just 352 00:17:59,769 --> 00:17:57,740 did not take off and if it wasn't for 353 00:18:03,850 --> 00:17:59,779 that article everything would be the 354 00:18:05,380 --> 00:18:03,860 same well the article gives you a frame 355 00:18:07,769 --> 00:18:05,390 of reference if it's in the New York 356 00:18:10,539 --> 00:18:07,779 Times that'll be true right yet 357 00:18:14,259 --> 00:18:10,549 substantial yeah we've never had that 358 00:18:17,980 --> 00:18:14,269 kind of a stamp of approval on something 359 00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:17,990 coming out yeah and so I and I still 360 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:20,750 want to know what caused this to come 361 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:23,510 out now somebody had to say something 362 00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:27,529 somewhere now is the time and under 363 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:29,240 weather is Elizondo although he seemed 364 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:31,570 to be one of the major actors here and 365 00:18:39,460 --> 00:18:35,450 finally glad and get it out it's about 366 00:18:43,269 --> 00:18:39,470 time but some of it courage for somebody 367 00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:43,279 to take that big step and I'm so glad 368 00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:44,299 that it's happened 369 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:46,340 right and I hope there's more to come 370 00:18:51,370 --> 00:18:49,010 from course yeah you know I am too 371 00:18:54,129 --> 00:18:51,380 yeah this is something I brought up 372 00:18:56,769 --> 00:18:54,139 while talking to Alejandro the other day 373 00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:56,779 and it's it's kind of like we're at a 374 00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:00,590 point where there has to be a strike 375 00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:03,049 while the iron's hot or something has to 376 00:19:10,539 --> 00:19:07,460 to keep this thing alive enough to get 377 00:19:12,909 --> 00:19:10,549 enough people to pay attention to it you 378 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:12,919 know I'm hoping that people will take a 379 00:19:16,450 --> 00:19:14,809 cue from this and more of them will be 380 00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:16,460 coming forth but probably after the 381 00:19:21,639 --> 00:19:18,470 first of the year yeah this is a very 382 00:19:24,879 --> 00:19:21,649 busy time of year for news and things 383 00:19:26,620 --> 00:19:24,889 going up so I think things will have to 384 00:19:33,460 --> 00:19:26,630 calm down a little and then they'll need 385 00:19:35,919 --> 00:19:33,470 stories and I have to I have to say that 386 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:35,929 on one of the news stations I'm not sure 387 00:19:41,379 --> 00:19:38,690 if it was CNN or Fox but it was one of 388 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:41,389 the ones that I was watching the the 389 00:19:47,049 --> 00:19:43,730 news commentator said until recently 390 00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:47,059 this could not be discussed on public 391 00:19:54,159 --> 00:19:50,630 news so maybe there has been a policy 392 00:19:56,980 --> 00:19:54,169 change and I'm hoping that that is what 393 00:20:00,880 --> 00:19:56,990 has happened and and that the news can 394 00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:00,890 now cover this sort of thing 395 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:04,160 well I hope so it's time what it's past 396 00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:06,710 time way past time but again I'm still 397 00:20:13,660 --> 00:20:09,980 looking for somebody somewhere how to 398 00:20:16,299 --> 00:20:13,670 make a decision was a Elizondo or is 399 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:16,309 there somebody else lurking yeah yeah 400 00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:18,650 I've talked about this with other people 401 00:20:25,870 --> 00:20:23,150 as well and it's like you know I don't 402 00:20:28,510 --> 00:20:25,880 want to say that anything was scripted 403 00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:28,520 but there was probably some type of 404 00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:31,820 guidelines on what someone like him 405 00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:36,440 could actually reveal well normally you 406 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:38,600 have security guides for any classified 407 00:20:44,250 --> 00:20:41,270 program you have a detailed tabulation 408 00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:44,260 of what is classified and what isn't and 409 00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:48,980 so somebody had to say you know spell 410 00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:51,470 those things out but whoever did that 411 00:20:56,409 --> 00:20:54,080 this is a breakthrough and let's hope it 412 00:21:00,250 --> 00:20:56,419 continues now of course we'll get people 413 00:21:02,830 --> 00:21:00,260 like Tyson saying silly things but I was 414 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:02,840 very pleased to see Billy Cox and George 415 00:21:09,630 --> 00:21:05,890 Knapp to the best UFO journalists around 416 00:21:16,030 --> 00:21:09,640 come out very strongly written form and 417 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:16,040 in details and they have a following and 418 00:21:21,610 --> 00:21:18,370 I'm so pleased that they're on board 419 00:21:26,260 --> 00:21:21,620 right you know that's gonna happen next 420 00:21:31,870 --> 00:21:26,270 one well I saw I saw Tyson talk about 421 00:21:34,659 --> 00:21:31,880 this on CNN and I was not I was actually 422 00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:34,669 impressed that he didn't go the way he 423 00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:36,950 normally goes into this whole - bunking 424 00:21:42,610 --> 00:21:40,640 mode and like it's crazy and I thought 425 00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:42,620 he was fairly level-headed you know I 426 00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:45,140 said a couple of semi condescending 427 00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:48,020 things but for the most part he he said 428 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:50,030 well you know it maybe it should be 429 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:51,890 investigated I was actually kind of 430 00:21:55,570 --> 00:21:53,690 shocked when he said that coming from 431 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:55,580 him that was very shocking I mean 432 00:22:00,940 --> 00:21:57,770 remember he has a history on this 433 00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,950 subject way back when he said the proof 434 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:02,720 that the government can't keep secrets 435 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:04,850 is how much we know about President 436 00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:07,130 Clinton's genitalia Yeah right which is 437 00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:09,950 an utterly stupid remark yeah thankfully 438 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:12,830 he doesn't understand security 439 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:14,690 he doesn't understand enters 440 00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:17,170 don't travel people think that somehow 441 00:22:22,270 --> 00:22:18,920 astronomers know something about 442 00:22:23,620 --> 00:22:22,280 interstellar travel they don't they know 443 00:22:25,810 --> 00:22:23,630 that there are stars out there and 444 00:22:27,310 --> 00:22:25,820 planets and things like that they know 445 00:22:29,290 --> 00:22:27,320 how to get there we didn't get into 446 00:22:32,410 --> 00:22:29,300 space because the astronomers were just 447 00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:32,420 there designing and building space 448 00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:35,240 systems in spite of them hmm 449 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:39,590 they look at way back in 1956 the 450 00:22:43,950 --> 00:22:41,330 British astronomer royal said space 451 00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:43,960 Crabble is utter bilge 452 00:22:48,820 --> 00:22:46,880 who's gonna pay for it we should spend 453 00:22:52,450 --> 00:22:48,830 money on good equipment for astronomy 454 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:52,460 that was a year before Sputnik and the 455 00:22:58,830 --> 00:22:54,710 field that is benefited the most from 456 00:23:02,470 --> 00:22:58,840 the space program has been astronomy but 457 00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:02,480 you know it also astronomers don't seem 458 00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:06,470 to have any concept of exploration of 459 00:23:14,290 --> 00:23:12,040 why would people go someplace you know 460 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:14,300 Columbus wasn't looking to meet with his 461 00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:18,890 cousins for goodness sakes and the 462 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:21,200 history of discovery is people having 463 00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:23,330 guts enough to ask new questions to 464 00:23:28,090 --> 00:23:25,070 stick their necks out to look for 465 00:23:33,820 --> 00:23:28,100 answers and the astronomical community 466 00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:33,830 has been opposed all along it's amazing 467 00:23:39,610 --> 00:23:37,000 to look at their books and their absence 468 00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:39,620 dr. seth shostack he chimed in the other 469 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:42,950 day too you know it's kind of like he 470 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:44,750 said on one program very recently 471 00:23:50,140 --> 00:23:48,110 because I won the debate oh when he and 472 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:50,150 I debated well that doesn't prove I was 473 00:23:58,690 --> 00:23:53,570 right you know that doesn't deal with 474 00:24:01,600 --> 00:23:58,700 the evidence at all yeah yeah you know 475 00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:01,610 speaking of on the skeptic side someone 476 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:04,760 sent me a clip about an hour go with 477 00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:08,510 James Oberg and you know he's you know 478 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:11,030 you you oftentimes you can see his you 479 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:13,730 know debunking and something you have 480 00:24:17,380 --> 00:24:15,110 mentioned before stand I've heard you 481 00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,390 say this when you can't attack the 482 00:24:22,090 --> 00:24:19,760 evidence you attack the person that's 483 00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,100 what debunkers tend to do and sure 484 00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:25,120 enough he went right for Leslie Kane 485 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:28,280 saying you know because the chili you 486 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:33,200 UFO was was not good that this is very 487 00:24:39,790 --> 00:24:36,310 similar to it and that is absolute bull 488 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:39,800 because that was 50 miles of you know 489 00:24:45,820 --> 00:24:43,130 away from the camera in that particular 490 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:45,830 case and it was a new camera they were 491 00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:47,450 using and all that there was a lot of 492 00:24:53,620 --> 00:24:49,600 things involved and for him to say that 493 00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:53,630 is just kind of ridiculous well it's one 494 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:55,400 of the basic rules don't bother me with 495 00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:57,170 the facts my mind's made up 496 00:25:00,790 --> 00:24:58,850 what the public doesn't know I'm not 497 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:00,800 gonna tell them if it can't attack the 498 00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:03,140 data attack the people it's easier and 499 00:25:09,490 --> 00:25:05,510 do your research by Proclamation we 500 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:09,500 heard a lot of that week's investigation 501 00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:10,610 is too much trouble 502 00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:13,700 and that's one of the problems but the 503 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:16,220 SETI community you know silly effort to 504 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:17,900 investigate something came up with 505 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:20,210 another one the other day was good but I 506 00:25:27,910 --> 00:25:24,130 can't remember what it was but they 507 00:25:29,890 --> 00:25:27,920 insist ignore all the evidence that 508 00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:29,900 relates to their being extraterrestrials 509 00:25:37,410 --> 00:25:34,880 here on planet Earth talk about life out 510 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:37,420 there but they ain't coming here folks 511 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:40,310 you know which is so silly we have all 512 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:42,260 kinds of evidence but you notice the 513 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:43,610 other night 514 00:25:51,610 --> 00:25:47,180 that nobody mentioned the physical trace 515 00:25:54,010 --> 00:25:51,620 cases yeah they mentioned a lot of radar 516 00:25:56,350 --> 00:25:54,020 visual sightings there are all kinds of 517 00:25:59,530 --> 00:25:56,360 look did you notice that there was no 518 00:26:02,770 --> 00:25:59,540 mention that the NSA released 156 pop 519 00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:02,780 secret hombre UFO documents on which you 520 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:06,590 can read one sentence per page that's 521 00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:08,960 the NSA and I think these guys think it 522 00:26:15,820 --> 00:26:14,240 means no such agency they also there was 523 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:15,830 there was no mention of a blue book 524 00:26:19,870 --> 00:26:17,990 special report 14 only date on thirty 525 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:19,880 two hundred and one sightings and you 526 00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:23,930 notice when they showed the Navy pilot 527 00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:28,190 footage after a while they only showed 528 00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:32,180 the object standing still and to me what 529 00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:34,580 was so impressive about that is how 530 00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:37,880 suddenly zipped the thing goes off at a 531 00:26:41,769 --> 00:26:40,040 very high rate of speed after now we 532 00:26:45,639 --> 00:26:41,779 don't have things that can move 533 00:26:48,849 --> 00:26:45,649 rapidly and hover right they didn't show 534 00:26:51,639 --> 00:26:48,859 that part was kind of like hey you 535 00:26:52,659 --> 00:26:51,649 missed the point guys well also along 536 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:52,669 those line Stan 537 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:55,129 I heard George and now George Knapp has 538 00:26:59,139 --> 00:26:56,690 done a wonderful job with this and I 539 00:27:00,969 --> 00:26:59,149 highly respect him but on one interview 540 00:27:04,299 --> 00:27:00,979 someone said well couldn't this be 541 00:27:06,009 --> 00:27:04,309 technology you know from you know 542 00:27:07,419 --> 00:27:06,019 another country and he said sure it 543 00:27:08,729 --> 00:27:07,429 could be China or Russia or something 544 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:08,739 you know that's very that is a 545 00:27:13,989 --> 00:27:11,690 possibility but that is disregarding all 546 00:27:16,959 --> 00:27:13,999 the past you know all the way back like 547 00:27:19,149 --> 00:27:16,969 you mentioned to 1947 all the craft that 548 00:27:21,219 --> 00:27:19,159 could do spectacular things that there's 549 00:27:23,589 --> 00:27:21,229 no way that we could have had the 550 00:27:27,789 --> 00:27:23,599 technology anywhere in any country would 551 00:27:29,349 --> 00:27:27,799 be hidden that long no because if you 552 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:29,359 have the technology you want to use it 553 00:27:37,149 --> 00:27:32,450 to threaten your neighbors that's right 554 00:27:41,649 --> 00:27:37,159 isn't that the name of the game yeah so 555 00:27:44,109 --> 00:27:41,659 Kathy yes when you were have you did you 556 00:27:47,289 --> 00:27:44,119 watch actually when Tom DeLonge had his 557 00:27:49,749 --> 00:27:47,299 uh his little thing back in October did 558 00:27:53,409 --> 00:27:49,759 you see that as well yes you did 559 00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:53,419 and in general what did you think of all 560 00:27:58,859 --> 00:27:55,849 the the people that were while you were 561 00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:58,869 mentioning the different names I think 562 00:28:04,749 --> 00:28:01,039 Chris melon who was actually on this 563 00:28:09,459 --> 00:28:04,759 show at one time I think he's one of the 564 00:28:11,259 --> 00:28:09,469 more substantial of them all and yes and 565 00:28:14,829 --> 00:28:11,269 you mentioned the melon family now I had 566 00:28:17,289 --> 00:28:14,839 someone contact me and they said that 567 00:28:20,139 --> 00:28:17,299 Chris melon I just thought this was a 568 00:28:23,229 --> 00:28:20,149 really funny statement Chris melon how 569 00:28:25,659 --> 00:28:23,239 can you trust him it shows 12 12 year 570 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:25,669 gap on his LinkedIn for an occupation 571 00:28:31,619 --> 00:28:28,210 and I wrote him back and I said well 572 00:28:36,190 --> 00:28:31,629 he's a melon he can do whatever he wants 573 00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:36,200 I lived in Pittsburgh and yes the nones 574 00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:39,080 can do whatever they want that's right 575 00:28:46,810 --> 00:28:42,799 that's right yes you know Tom DeLonge 576 00:28:50,589 --> 00:28:46,820 put together a really high-powered group 577 00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:50,599 of individuals to work on this and boy I 578 00:28:58,639 --> 00:28:55,230 have to take my hat off to him he 579 00:29:00,560 --> 00:28:58,649 done an incredible job with this and I 580 00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:00,570 didn't think he was going to be able to 581 00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:02,630 pull it off and it appears that he has 582 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:05,070 yeah there's been a lot of right on 583 00:29:11,419 --> 00:29:08,970 there's been a lot of bashing of Tom 584 00:29:13,850 --> 00:29:11,429 DeLonge because you know people are 585 00:29:16,940 --> 00:29:13,860 saying you know I think the feeling is 586 00:29:18,950 --> 00:29:16,950 that you know he hasn't been really 587 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:18,960 involved in the UFO field and here he 588 00:29:21,740 --> 00:29:19,470 comes 589 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:21,750 you know because he's you know famous 590 00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:23,970 and popular and has money and Harry 591 00:29:29,899 --> 00:29:26,070 comes along and I think there may be a 592 00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:29,909 little bit of jealousy but also he you 593 00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:31,860 know some of his own personal views are 594 00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:34,049 kind of out there and and I can 595 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:35,340 understand where it makes people a 596 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:38,490 little a little leery but boy he did he 597 00:29:42,889 --> 00:29:40,049 did knock this one out of the park after 598 00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:42,899 all said and done yes yes and when I 599 00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:46,679 heard him speak about evil aliens early 600 00:29:52,460 --> 00:29:49,289 on and some of the radio shows that he 601 00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:52,470 was on I was very apprehensive about 602 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:55,940 what he had up his sleeve and and 603 00:30:02,830 --> 00:29:58,970 exactly what he was doing but 604 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:02,840 considering the individuals on this 605 00:30:09,889 --> 00:30:07,049 Academy of Arts and Science I really I'm 606 00:30:14,659 --> 00:30:09,899 impressed with the group of individuals 607 00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:14,669 he has yes I've never seen a more 608 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:16,289 high-powered group in their 609 00:30:24,409 --> 00:30:20,250 presentations and I've watched a lot of 610 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:24,419 presentations and these guys said knew 611 00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:26,010 what they had to say and they said it 612 00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:30,179 well and Tom I was not expecting a lot 613 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:32,760 from Tom but I thought he did a bang-up 614 00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:36,720 job and so it was a pleasure for me I 615 00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:39,360 didn't have to say oh why do you say 616 00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:42,630 that you know which is my usual comment 617 00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:46,200 with the sort of thing but yeah I was 618 00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,830 very favorably impressed and you know I 619 00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:51,600 don't know how much coverage the story 620 00:30:57,919 --> 00:30:55,350 god overall on the media I'm sure some 621 00:30:59,930 --> 00:30:57,929 places plated a lot bigger but I was 622 00:31:01,159 --> 00:30:59,940 frankly surprised that it got started 623 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:01,169 with the New York Times 624 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:04,590 I mean Leslie has done things there but 625 00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,970 still I saw the comments and one 626 00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:10,799 the articles by the geison of new york 627 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:12,840 times how they went over it and went 628 00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:14,850 over it and you know they had to be 629 00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:16,860 convinced to do it and so more than so 630 00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:19,380 on and that what he would seem to be 631 00:31:24,740 --> 00:31:22,380 saying is we did our due diligence and 632 00:31:26,210 --> 00:31:24,750 that's nice to know because there have 633 00:31:29,899 --> 00:31:26,220 been times in the past from the New York 634 00:31:34,060 --> 00:31:29,909 Times it's not any you know any media 635 00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,070 seems to it yeah there are standards 636 00:31:41,330 --> 00:31:37,200 seem well and a lot of media there's 637 00:31:45,610 --> 00:31:41,340 tandems standards of journalism they 638 00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:45,620 could use some refresher courses I think 639 00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:48,960 so stand-up one of the things I wanted 640 00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:51,809 to ask you in all your years that you've 641 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:54,299 been looking at this topic has any is 642 00:32:00,320 --> 00:31:56,130 there any equivalent to what has just 643 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:00,330 happened well I don't think some 644 00:32:03,770 --> 00:32:02,490 although it's tempted to say well there 645 00:32:07,690 --> 00:32:03,780 were there congressional hearings of 646 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:07,700 1968 were twelve scientists presented 647 00:32:14,419 --> 00:32:11,610 the story of flying saucers it didn't 648 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:14,429 get a lot of publicity at the time but 649 00:32:20,779 --> 00:32:17,610 it was impressive overall if you read 650 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:20,789 those hearings and they were all I was 651 00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:22,260 the only one without a PhD at the 652 00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:25,590 twelfth guys who were prisons hmm wow 653 00:32:32,390 --> 00:32:28,799 that's pretty powerful stuff but it 654 00:32:35,779 --> 00:32:32,400 didn't didn't make his biggest splash it 655 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:35,789 was like people are so reluctant not God 656 00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,890 with MIT but I gave my first years worth 657 00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:40,320 of lectures way back in the mid sixties 658 00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,640 I was wary I kept waiting for somebody 659 00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:46,559 to give me a really hard time or to be 660 00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:48,299 able to knock me out of the park so to 661 00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:50,580 speak and it didn't happen 662 00:32:55,370 --> 00:32:52,710 I was relieved but there was a whole 663 00:33:00,140 --> 00:32:55,380 year there where I kept waiting for the 664 00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:00,150 other shoe to drop so to speak and hear 665 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:04,799 these guys proceeded proceeded on doing 666 00:33:12,770 --> 00:33:10,110 their thing and no shoes dropped and you 667 00:33:16,690 --> 00:33:12,780 know I think dr. Tyson if anybody looks 668 00:33:21,740 --> 00:33:16,700 at what he actually said he screwed up 669 00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:21,750 he didn't say anything useful it showed 670 00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:22,919 no imagine 671 00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:26,399 and I think why are you talking science 672 00:33:34,879 --> 00:33:29,340 and imagination but you have to stop to 673 00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:34,889 think why why secrecy why would aliens 674 00:33:43,070 --> 00:33:39,779 come here it's not a game we have a long 675 00:33:46,369 --> 00:33:43,080 history on this planet of beings from 676 00:33:49,489 --> 00:33:46,379 one place one country giving a hard time 677 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:49,499 to beings from another country and so we 678 00:33:57,409 --> 00:33:52,830 see that all the time we have aliens 679 00:34:00,529 --> 00:33:57,419 coming here who expect them to you know 680 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:00,539 land on a White House lawn they have 681 00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,210 this is the first time in recent history 682 00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:08,879 as far as we know that we've been in a 683 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:12,780 real position to say if we want to go to 684 00:34:20,059 --> 00:34:16,730 the Stars we can and turn that around 685 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:20,069 what do you think the aliens think about 686 00:34:27,589 --> 00:34:24,210 that hmm they would be concerned as all 687 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:27,599 get-out about us our track record is 688 00:34:32,809 --> 00:34:31,290 terrible we keep forgetting that you 689 00:34:36,589 --> 00:34:32,819 know we're nice guys everybody knows 690 00:34:39,319 --> 00:34:36,599 that well we're not well we have no way 691 00:34:41,180 --> 00:34:39,329 to tell whether there are nice guys like 692 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:41,190 us either you know they haven't attacked 693 00:34:45,980 --> 00:34:44,490 us yet that's true yeah yeah I'm not 694 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:45,990 saying we know what the future holds 695 00:34:49,369 --> 00:34:47,609 whether they're gonna give us another 696 00:34:52,700 --> 00:34:49,379 year and say huh we've given them enough 697 00:34:57,559 --> 00:34:52,710 time forget about it wipe it out we 698 00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,569 don't know but you can make a case that 699 00:35:01,010 --> 00:34:59,280 if you have a sufficiently advanced 700 00:35:03,460 --> 00:35:01,020 civilization that it knows some history 701 00:35:06,289 --> 00:35:03,470 about its own beings in the neighborhood 702 00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:06,299 that they've decided that getting along 703 00:35:12,260 --> 00:35:09,150 is better than throwing H bombs at each 704 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:12,270 other don't you think hmm right at some 705 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:13,410 point you've got to make that decision 706 00:35:19,420 --> 00:35:16,260 because if you don't we are gonna be 707 00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:19,430 throwing H bombs and we're gonna be gone 708 00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:24,630 so I'm a rationalist I think the aliens 709 00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:28,520 are acting's are going to act sensibly 710 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:31,140 and I'm particularly intrigued by the 711 00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:32,730 times that they've showed up near 712 00:35:36,890 --> 00:35:35,670 nuclear weapons testing right near 713 00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:36,900 nuclear installation 714 00:35:41,150 --> 00:35:38,520 and it's not because I'm a nuclear 715 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:41,160 physicist but nuclear nuclear energy 716 00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:44,130 gives us a means to go out there and 717 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:47,460 bother them and if I were alien I'd be 718 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:50,970 very worried about you know as long as 719 00:35:55,099 --> 00:35:52,890 we respect on our own planet I can see 720 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:55,109 where the aliens say I let the kids play 721 00:36:00,769 --> 00:35:57,930 their silly games but as soon as you say 722 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:00,779 they've exploded 2,000 nuclear weapons 723 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:04,410 which we have suddenly the whole local 724 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:06,270 neighborhood is within reach and that's 725 00:36:13,549 --> 00:36:08,930 one thing that has really changed since 726 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:13,559 I began work in ufology our concept of 727 00:36:20,269 --> 00:36:17,210 how many planets there are and how many 728 00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:20,279 you know are in the neighborhood has 729 00:36:25,819 --> 00:36:24,180 changed drastically Frank Drake said not 730 00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:25,829 too many years ago there might be as 731 00:36:31,789 --> 00:36:28,160 many as 8,000 planets out there 732 00:36:34,460 --> 00:36:31,799 now we're talking eight billion it's 733 00:36:37,309 --> 00:36:34,470 probably a lot more ballgame yeah yeah 734 00:36:40,269 --> 00:36:37,319 I'm not saying that's the limit at least 735 00:36:45,859 --> 00:36:40,279 eight billion in our own little galaxy 736 00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:45,869 so what I'm saying is our status we are 737 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:48,660 guaranteed I can't believe we're not of 738 00:36:56,859 --> 00:36:52,650 concern to others in the galaxy in our 739 00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:56,869 neighborhood because of our behavior 740 00:37:05,120 --> 00:36:59,760 2,000 nuclear weapons is putting a lot 741 00:37:08,260 --> 00:37:05,130 of stuff out there right right so I I 742 00:37:13,250 --> 00:37:08,270 would like to ask what you thought about 743 00:37:14,059 --> 00:37:13,260 Bob Bigelow's side his part of this 744 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:14,069 whole thing 745 00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:15,930 also because you mentioned the senator 746 00:37:21,769 --> 00:37:18,000 and I know there was a connection there 747 00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:21,779 but also if either one of you have heard 748 00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:24,569 anything about the metals that are the 749 00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:27,839 unusual metals that are well how's that 750 00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:29,640 you know I listen to I I know Bob 751 00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:32,910 Bigelow I was got the first research 752 00:37:39,529 --> 00:37:35,700 grant that he made a lot of years ago 753 00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:39,539 I'm pleased about that and he I was very 754 00:37:43,279 --> 00:37:41,700 impressed with him not because of the 755 00:37:45,620 --> 00:37:43,289 billion dollars that's the president 756 00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:45,630 know what I mean because of how he 757 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:47,220 handled things so he could make 758 00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:50,490 decisions how he was rational and didn't 759 00:37:56,300 --> 00:37:52,830 interfere he went along in our first two 760 00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:56,310 research trip and he didn't interfere 761 00:38:01,160 --> 00:37:58,410 and he that was a point some of the 762 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:01,170 other people didn't want to go but I was 763 00:38:05,780 --> 00:38:03,540 very impressed now that was one part 764 00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:05,790 that was confusing because at one point 765 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:07,590 they said something about the 766 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:11,490 composition of the materials and the 767 00:38:17,570 --> 00:38:15,930 other point they've got materials but it 768 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:17,580 sounds as if they didn't know what they 769 00:38:22,090 --> 00:38:19,530 were knowing what something is doesn't 770 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:22,100 mean you can duplicate it mm-hmm 771 00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:24,810 you know it's not it's easy to say but 772 00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:27,119 that doesn't mean you can well you know 773 00:38:33,590 --> 00:38:31,710 I want three pounds of that okay you 774 00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:33,600 know it's like separating uranium 775 00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:36,990 isotopes oh you need you 235 well it's 776 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:38,760 only seven tenths of one percent no way 777 00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:42,690 to worry about that oh yeah oh we spent 778 00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:46,200 an awful lot of money and effort to 779 00:38:51,410 --> 00:38:49,080 build facilities to separate that that 780 00:38:54,109 --> 00:38:51,420 tiny amount less than seven tenths of 781 00:38:57,859 --> 00:38:54,119 one percent and make it ninety percent 782 00:39:02,540 --> 00:38:57,869 enriched just one heck of a jaunt from 783 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:02,550 beginning to end very expensive so what 784 00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:06,770 I'm saying is that we are in a situation 785 00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:10,500 where we have to recognize how we look 786 00:39:17,780 --> 00:39:14,340 to them and we also have to recognize 787 00:39:19,450 --> 00:39:17,790 how do we look to each other we're all 788 00:39:21,859 --> 00:39:19,460 earthlings 789 00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:21,869 who's going to decide how we proceed 790 00:39:31,370 --> 00:39:27,390 from here and that is a great concern to 791 00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:31,380 me where's the forum who's gonna run the 792 00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:36,150 show right well it's kind of like if if 793 00:39:42,109 --> 00:39:39,680 we were indeed had contact who would be 794 00:39:46,580 --> 00:39:42,119 you know who would represent the earth 795 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:46,590 as well good question yes absolutely 796 00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:49,050 I certainly don't know I'm not gonna get 797 00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:52,230 I'm not gonna go there about the 798 00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:54,260 president 799 00:40:02,859 --> 00:39:59,119 oh yeah not good I get a lot of mail if 800 00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:02,869 I say anything about that so we had a 801 00:40:07,420 --> 00:40:05,510 question that came in and it was 802 00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:07,430 directed to you stand they wanted to 803 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:11,150 know what you thought about the fund the 804 00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:15,170 fundraising part of to the stars what 805 00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:18,140 your thoughts were about that well I'm 806 00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:19,640 still wanting to know how much money 807 00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:21,640 they raised and were they raised it 808 00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:24,500 frankly obviously somebody spent some 809 00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:28,220 money on this thing mm-hmm and I have to 810 00:40:31,690 --> 00:40:29,780 give them credit for being able to do 811 00:40:34,359 --> 00:40:31,700 that I mean no matter how you slice it 812 00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:34,369 it takes money to put on a dog and pony 813 00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:38,390 show as some people used to say it you 814 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:40,910 have to do a nice job which they did the 815 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:43,010 other day the production on the stage 816 00:40:48,580 --> 00:40:46,250 there was very well done I thought all 817 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:48,590 right that took effort it took money it 818 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:50,570 took somebody committing themselves so 819 00:40:56,140 --> 00:40:53,810 let's get it done right and so I I was 820 00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:56,150 I'm still trying to figure out how much 821 00:41:01,450 --> 00:40:58,930 money did they spend I mean 22 million 822 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:01,460 at one point somebody said that was a 823 00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:04,130 year which is not the case it was all 824 00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:07,070 told in the five-year period I guess but 825 00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:11,600 I and I'm still very curious does 826 00:41:16,270 --> 00:41:13,400 anybody heard any stories about where 827 00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:16,280 the dough come from did I I mean I it's 828 00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:19,550 not that Bigelow couldn't afford it but 829 00:41:24,730 --> 00:41:22,160 I think there'd be a lot of people 830 00:41:27,609 --> 00:41:24,740 worried about having one man having all 831 00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:27,619 the irons in the fire you know what I 832 00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:29,900 mean right but just a little confusion 833 00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:30,560 there Stan 834 00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:33,710 the question the person was asking that 835 00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:38,240 Tom DeLonge had a fund fund drive when 836 00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:40,880 he was starting that actually someone's 837 00:41:44,859 --> 00:41:42,500 calling in now why don't I take this 838 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:44,869 call and it may be the person that 839 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:49,010 wanted to ask that question okay caller 840 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:51,290 you are live your first name in where 841 00:41:59,620 --> 00:41:55,850 are you calling from with me 842 00:42:04,480 --> 00:41:59,630 that's you yes yes hey how you guys 843 00:42:05,170 --> 00:42:04,490 doing what's your first name Steve hi 844 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:05,180 Steve 845 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:07,410 you have a question for our guests 846 00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:10,650 I I did I mean I deciding when I was a 847 00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:13,740 kid so I'm I'm a believer as this thing 848 00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:16,049 goes I know what I saw but they can't 849 00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:20,190 help being concerned about one thing 850 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:23,160 with all this it's a long time systems 851 00:42:32,839 --> 00:42:27,650 engineer I mean this is like the perfect 852 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:32,849 honeypot and the whole thing with the 853 00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:37,920 honeypot is is legitimacy and you know 854 00:42:41,660 --> 00:42:40,109 we've had so much trouble in the world 855 00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:41,670 with the hacking with the 856 00:42:47,499 --> 00:42:45,119 state-sponsored hacking the election you 857 00:42:51,650 --> 00:42:47,509 know just before that North Korea was 858 00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:51,660 hacking Sony and so in systems 859 00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:54,950 engineering there's a notion called 860 00:43:01,849 --> 00:42:57,599 creating a honeypot something that's 861 00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:01,859 just too tempting so that people 862 00:43:06,819 --> 00:43:04,049 couldn't couldn't resist and couldn't 863 00:43:10,819 --> 00:43:06,829 resist cutting cutting loose their own 864 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:10,829 teams to try and get more information 865 00:43:17,029 --> 00:43:14,250 and and you would have partners in that 866 00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:17,039 who are witting and unwitting you know 867 00:43:23,660 --> 00:43:21,390 to create that honeypot and I just I you 868 00:43:31,249 --> 00:43:23,670 know I you seen the movie wag the dog 869 00:43:36,529 --> 00:43:31,259 with Robert De Niro hmm I did well well 870 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:36,539 they create a a circumstance that that 871 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:38,730 allows them that allow what's the 872 00:43:45,620 --> 00:43:40,650 President of the United States off the 873 00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:45,630 hook work for a major crisis and and 874 00:43:54,589 --> 00:43:51,390 they do it with one video of a video 875 00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,599 going down the chimneys and of a bomb 876 00:43:58,130 --> 00:43:56,400 going down the chimney and they're 877 00:44:03,799 --> 00:43:58,140 selling this idea they're going to 878 00:44:06,019 --> 00:44:03,809 create a war to to get the public 879 00:44:10,099 --> 00:44:06,029 distracted from what's really going on 880 00:44:14,329 --> 00:44:10,109 and and I just and so they they fake a 881 00:44:18,349 --> 00:44:14,339 war and they have one video and really 882 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:18,359 what we've seen on the CNN is that one 883 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:21,089 video and it's very compelling 884 00:44:27,439 --> 00:44:23,249 and I just can't help but wonder if this 885 00:44:30,409 --> 00:44:27,449 isn't them creating a honeypot basically 886 00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:30,419 so Stan do you understand his his 887 00:44:34,699 --> 00:44:33,209 question well I do and I don't have an 888 00:44:37,489 --> 00:44:34,709 answer for him 889 00:44:39,229 --> 00:44:37,499 I can't say that it's impossible with 890 00:44:41,809 --> 00:44:39,239 all the manipulations that are there 891 00:44:44,149 --> 00:44:41,819 have been on this planet you know over 892 00:44:47,929 --> 00:44:44,159 the last but just make it 20 years no 893 00:44:50,599 --> 00:44:47,939 less 200 years there are all kinds of 894 00:44:53,659 --> 00:44:50,609 possibilities but I again I was very 895 00:44:55,489 --> 00:44:53,669 impressed by the quality of the people 896 00:44:58,909 --> 00:44:55,499 who were involved these are guys who've 897 00:45:00,439 --> 00:44:58,919 had very responsible positions and had 898 00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:00,449 to be trusted and there were high 899 00:45:05,449 --> 00:45:03,569 security positions and you know maybe 900 00:45:09,009 --> 00:45:05,459 maybe it's foolish having had a 901 00:45:13,999 --> 00:45:09,019 clearance for 14 years but I think it 902 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:14,009 says strong control on people but 903 00:45:19,309 --> 00:45:17,249 they're doing things under security and 904 00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:19,319 you sign on to keeping your mouth shut 905 00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:21,089 and doing all kinds of other things you 906 00:45:26,179 --> 00:45:24,209 take it very seriously somebody who 907 00:45:29,299 --> 00:45:26,189 hasn't had a clearance may not realize 908 00:45:32,929 --> 00:45:29,309 how what a big impact it is on an 909 00:45:36,349 --> 00:45:32,939 individual when he finds out about stuff 910 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:36,359 that he can't tell anybody about and 911 00:45:43,669 --> 00:45:38,130 where the penalties for doing that are 912 00:45:45,499 --> 00:45:43,679 very severe it it scares you you got to 913 00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:45,509 watch what you're doing he's got to be 914 00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:46,169 careful 915 00:45:52,819 --> 00:45:50,880 I was pressed with that stuff I just 916 00:45:56,809 --> 00:45:52,829 want to say it seems like you know we're 917 00:46:00,409 --> 00:45:56,819 all so eager for this to be true and it 918 00:46:04,669 --> 00:46:00,419 just for what we have seen the video on 919 00:46:09,289 --> 00:46:04,679 CNN that's I mean we've gotten one video 920 00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:09,299 out of them and I just I hope there's a 921 00:46:16,009 --> 00:46:13,049 lot more coming and that Kathy what was 922 00:46:19,549 --> 00:46:16,019 that number of how many reports well 923 00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:19,559 they had three dozen reports that was 924 00:46:25,279 --> 00:46:22,140 part of the advanced aerospace threat 925 00:46:27,799 --> 00:46:25,289 identification program to read read 926 00:46:30,289 --> 00:46:27,809 three dozen thick reports with hundreds 927 00:46:33,759 --> 00:46:30,299 of pages and three dozen technical 928 00:46:35,299 --> 00:46:33,769 reports that is according to Louise 929 00:46:39,019 --> 00:46:35,309 Elizondo 930 00:46:41,449 --> 00:46:39,029 and no we don't have all of that they 931 00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:41,459 have only been able to get the 932 00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:46,140 information that is has been released 933 00:46:53,059 --> 00:46:50,880 right across our nation yes so they 934 00:46:56,959 --> 00:46:53,069 don't have all of the information and 935 00:46:59,779 --> 00:46:56,969 they are I guess very slowly going to 936 00:47:01,609 --> 00:46:59,789 release the information that they have 937 00:47:07,339 --> 00:47:01,619 it's my understanding that they have 938 00:47:08,749 --> 00:47:07,349 three videos they have shown one I'm 939 00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:08,759 trying to think of what it was called 940 00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:11,969 the the gimbal the gimbal yes and then 941 00:47:17,569 --> 00:47:15,359 there was the one from the Nimitz and so 942 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:17,579 there's another one that should be 943 00:47:21,979 --> 00:47:20,249 coming out that's my understanding of it 944 00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:21,989 yeah and I heard there's a I've heard 945 00:47:31,459 --> 00:47:28,049 that Elizondo has up to 12 of them then 946 00:47:33,169 --> 00:47:31,469 he was able to secure but whether he can 947 00:47:38,809 --> 00:47:33,179 only show these three right now I'm not 948 00:47:41,029 --> 00:47:38,819 sure Steve thanks so much for the call I 949 00:47:43,429 --> 00:47:41,039 thought it was gone I thought it was 950 00:47:46,219 --> 00:47:43,439 neat perhaps I got his name wrong in 951 00:47:48,289 --> 00:47:46,229 eating the answer anyway so the line is 952 00:47:52,279 --> 00:47:48,299 open if someone would like to call and 953 00:47:55,459 --> 00:47:52,289 ask our guests some questions the number 954 00:48:00,049 --> 00:47:55,469 is six oh three nine six seven four OH 955 00:48:03,019 --> 00:48:00,059 three oh so I think I was understanding 956 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:03,029 the caller was calling the video of the 957 00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:04,650 honeypot I think that's what he was 958 00:48:11,029 --> 00:48:07,049 saying and like you said Kathy there's 959 00:48:12,769 --> 00:48:11,039 there's more to come on that and let's 960 00:48:16,249 --> 00:48:12,779 talk a little bit about the video though 961 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:16,259 right now because um I'm gonna pull this 962 00:48:22,579 --> 00:48:19,140 up on YouTube so people can see it so 963 00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:22,589 there's there's a there's people I don't 964 00:48:28,249 --> 00:48:25,049 want to say debunking or trying to 965 00:48:30,380 --> 00:48:28,259 debunk or bashing the video I don't know 966 00:48:33,529 --> 00:48:30,390 how either one of you heard of anything 967 00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:33,539 about that well I did hear somebody 968 00:48:37,249 --> 00:48:35,369 saying something and my immediate 969 00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:37,259 reaction was hey wait a minute they're 970 00:48:42,259 --> 00:48:39,839 at 20,000 feet they made it sound like 971 00:48:45,380 --> 00:48:42,269 it was you know a home movie project 972 00:48:48,739 --> 00:48:45,390 here on the ground it wasn't like that 973 00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:48,749 at all this is very special equipment 974 00:48:51,820 --> 00:48:49,710 very special sir 975 00:48:54,650 --> 00:48:51,830 from stances and very sophisticated 976 00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,660 people involved and we had the live 977 00:48:59,720 --> 00:48:57,119 recording which I found rather 978 00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,730 fascinating you don't often get to hear 979 00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:01,440 those from this sort of thing 980 00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:05,040 I mean maybe pilot flying a very 981 00:49:12,290 --> 00:49:09,089 expensive jet and using very 982 00:49:15,140 --> 00:49:12,300 sophisticated equipment to have that out 983 00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:15,150 in the open there's a big step forward 984 00:49:21,380 --> 00:49:17,369 and I hope that means there's gonna be 985 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:21,390 more like that right and David commander 986 00:49:30,140 --> 00:49:25,050 David favor had 16 years experience and 987 00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:30,150 over 3500 hours of flying time specially 988 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:35,730 trained and you know what those men were 989 00:49:43,339 --> 00:49:39,410 describing was incredible that the craft 990 00:49:46,339 --> 00:49:43,349 came in at supersonic speed it's stopped 991 00:49:50,540 --> 00:49:46,349 at 80,000 feet it dropped at 20,000 and 992 00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:50,550 then it dropped again and and stopped 50 993 00:49:55,849 --> 00:49:54,030 feet above the ocean right it's it was 994 00:50:00,400 --> 00:49:55,859 moving back and forth like a ping-pong 995 00:50:03,530 --> 00:50:00,410 ball hitting a wall and accelerating at 996 00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:03,540 incredible speed in moving in ways that 997 00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:06,740 we cannot they were breaking our eye 998 00:50:12,140 --> 00:50:09,839 aerodynamic rules are laws of physics as 999 00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:12,150 we understand them this is really 1000 00:50:19,070 --> 00:50:17,520 something very special yes and you know 1001 00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:19,080 a lot of people talk about the g-force 1002 00:50:24,829 --> 00:50:22,260 of course that if you know a being was 1003 00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:24,839 inside that there's no way that it could 1004 00:50:33,530 --> 00:50:29,730 survive as we know as we know it as we 1005 00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:33,540 understand it know the kicker is what 1006 00:50:37,790 --> 00:50:35,609 you need to understand is that there 1007 00:50:40,579 --> 00:50:37,800 isn't a fixed number how many G's can 1008 00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:40,589 you stand it depends how many G's you 1009 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:42,540 can stand depends on the direction of 1010 00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:44,490 the force with regard to the body and 1011 00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:45,990 notice the astronauts go up on their 1012 00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:50,160 back not foot ahead it depends on the 1013 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:53,040 duration of the force and the direction 1014 00:50:57,620 --> 00:50:55,290 with regard to the body and the 1015 00:50:59,900 --> 00:50:57,630 magnitude of the force now there's some 1016 00:51:01,280 --> 00:50:59,910 crazy numbers here you can actually spin 1017 00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:01,290 and there are measurements to show this 1018 00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:03,640 you can stand 30 G's for one 1019 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:06,710 one second that's zero to 600 miles an 1020 00:51:13,329 --> 00:51:09,770 hour in one second that's pretty 1021 00:51:15,130 --> 00:51:13,339 splendid pretty shocking you can a 1022 00:51:18,370 --> 00:51:15,140 trained pilot can perform a tracking 1023 00:51:22,510 --> 00:51:18,380 task at 14 G's for two and a half 1024 00:51:27,210 --> 00:51:22,520 minutes and think about that for a 1025 00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:27,220 minute it doesn't sound like long for me 1026 00:51:34,270 --> 00:51:30,319 what I'm saying is you design systems 1027 00:51:36,370 --> 00:51:34,280 and also another aspect here we haven't 1028 00:51:38,260 --> 00:51:36,380 talked about plasma propulsion that is 1029 00:51:41,349 --> 00:51:38,270 having a plasma around the vehicle 1030 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:41,359 ionized air around a vehicle but it 1031 00:51:45,460 --> 00:51:43,010 turns out there's an enormous amount of 1032 00:51:48,430 --> 00:51:45,470 work which you don't hear about in the 1033 00:51:50,980 --> 00:51:48,440 open very much that shows that with an 1034 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:50,990 ionized air region around a craft and 1035 00:51:55,809 --> 00:51:53,210 you have controlling magnetic and 1036 00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:55,819 electric fields you can control lift 1037 00:52:03,339 --> 00:52:00,500 drag heating sonic boom production all 1038 00:52:07,470 --> 00:52:03,349 of those things you know that's not some 1039 00:52:13,690 --> 00:52:11,230 that that's real world so might one of 1040 00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:13,700 my rules is the technological progress 1041 00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:16,609 comes from doing things differently in 1042 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:19,760 an unpredictable way the future is not 1043 00:52:24,849 --> 00:52:21,530 an extrapolation of the past you have to 1044 00:52:27,370 --> 00:52:24,859 change how you do things so it's too 1045 00:52:30,220 --> 00:52:27,380 quick to say that we couldn't do it or 1046 00:52:32,589 --> 00:52:30,230 we can't stand it or it violates the 1047 00:52:34,780 --> 00:52:32,599 laws of physics no we're talking about 1048 00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:34,790 new technologies we're always violating 1049 00:52:39,220 --> 00:52:36,319 the laws of physics if you say the way 1050 00:52:43,809 --> 00:52:39,230 we could do things before is sets the 1051 00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:43,819 limit and so you've got to be real 1052 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:45,710 careful about that we've got a lot to 1053 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:48,530 learn yet yeah yeah yeah I'm not 1054 00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:53,210 volunteering for that 30 G and I would 1055 00:53:00,910 --> 00:52:56,690 like to say something if I can way back 1056 00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:00,920 in 1961 as Barney Hill stood and looked 1057 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:04,220 at that craft he described it appearing 1058 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:07,130 to bounce back and forth he compared it 1059 00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:10,010 to a ball on a rubber band that's 1060 00:53:15,849 --> 00:53:12,319 connected to a paddle and you hit the 1061 00:53:17,470 --> 00:53:15,859 ball on the paddle and it flies out and 1062 00:53:20,170 --> 00:53:17,480 then it comes back 1063 00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:20,180 it was the same kind of motion way back 1064 00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:25,160 in 61 and there were nonhumans aboard 1065 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:29,630 that craft yeah I know it's it is like 1066 00:53:35,500 --> 00:53:32,690 we can't understand first of all how 1067 00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:35,510 they get here also the spectacular 1068 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:38,510 things that people have been reporting 1069 00:53:45,220 --> 00:53:41,930 for you know decades of the speeds the 1070 00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:45,230 the sharp turns the disappearing and 1071 00:53:50,849 --> 00:53:47,900 reappearing all those strange things 1072 00:53:53,890 --> 00:53:50,859 that people are reporting we we haven't 1073 00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:53,900 you know we don't have a clue of exactly 1074 00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:56,480 how they're doing well we do we do have 1075 00:54:02,970 --> 00:53:59,440 some okay we can do a lot of stuff now 1076 00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:02,980 and that's why I mention nuclear fusion 1077 00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:05,420 look it's kind of like going from 1078 00:54:12,099 --> 00:54:07,250 dynamite 1079 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:12,109 you know TNT Wow a big bomb in 1944 10 1080 00:54:17,770 --> 00:54:14,210 ton blockbuster released the energy at 1081 00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:17,780 10 tons of dynamite Wow the first day 1082 00:54:22,540 --> 00:54:19,990 bomb the next year 1083 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:22,550 15,000 tons of dynamite 1084 00:54:32,770 --> 00:54:29,930 the first h-bomb 1950 to 10 million tons 1085 00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:32,780 of dynamite and the Russian set went off 1086 00:54:42,970 --> 00:54:39,590 Tsar Bomba 57 million tons of dynamite 1087 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:42,980 one thinking bomb right could take out 1088 00:54:47,770 --> 00:54:46,130 exercise automate yeah if that's the one 1089 00:54:49,660 --> 00:54:47,780 I think you're talking about this said 1090 00:54:53,650 --> 00:54:49,670 it could they would it's big enough to 1091 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:53,660 destroy Texas basically well the 1092 00:54:58,570 --> 00:54:56,450 fireball alone on one was three miles 1093 00:55:00,010 --> 00:54:58,580 wide that's just the fireball that's not 1094 00:55:01,540 --> 00:55:00,020 the area of destruction which is much 1095 00:55:02,859 --> 00:55:01,550 big enough I remember the Russians cut 1096 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:02,869 Siberia which they got a lot of empty 1097 00:55:09,970 --> 00:55:07,490 space so what the heck but what I'm 1098 00:55:14,050 --> 00:55:09,980 saying is look at that progression from 1099 00:55:20,190 --> 00:55:14,060 10 tonnes mm-hmm fifty-seven thousand 1100 00:55:24,370 --> 00:55:20,200 tons you know that's a big big jump 1101 00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,380 right but remember fusion is what drives 1102 00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:26,960 all the energy in the universe that's 1103 00:55:30,790 --> 00:55:29,750 what goes on in the stars I'm not saying 1104 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:30,800 there's not something better than 1105 00:55:37,570 --> 00:55:33,290 we will eventually find but the jump 1106 00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:37,580 between burning gas and setting off a 1107 00:55:43,410 --> 00:55:40,400 fusion device and I worked on fusion 1108 00:55:47,770 --> 00:55:43,420 proposal for deep space travel in 1962 1109 00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:47,780 so it's not a new idea it'll be 1110 00:55:54,250 --> 00:55:51,400 expensive okay everything is expensive 1111 00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:54,260 but what I'm saying is we haven't 1112 00:56:00,580 --> 00:55:57,290 reached the limits of what we know 1113 00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:00,590 already and we've got a lot more to 1114 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:02,960 learn I'm always an optimist we will 1115 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:05,570 learn more we haven't reached the limit 1116 00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:08,090 and the history of technology 1117 00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:10,730 development has been reaching out and 1118 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:13,250 finding new ways of doing things there 1119 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:14,570 was there's a study just to give an 1120 00:56:20,950 --> 00:56:17,650 example in the 40s a professor Campbell 1121 00:56:22,990 --> 00:56:20,960 figured out what a how big what the 1122 00:56:27,340 --> 00:56:23,000 weight would be of a rocket able to get 1123 00:56:32,190 --> 00:56:27,350 a man to the moon and back a million 1124 00:56:35,530 --> 00:56:32,200 million tons he said and sorry you know 1125 00:56:38,380 --> 00:56:35,540 the trouble is a Saturn five weighed 1126 00:56:41,830 --> 00:56:38,390 3,000 tons he was a little wrong he 1127 00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:41,840 didn't know his technology anywhere you 1128 00:56:47,650 --> 00:56:46,430 go also it only takes a year at 1g to 1129 00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:47,660 get to the speed of light 1130 00:56:51,580 --> 00:56:49,310 I've had people I've tried this little 1131 00:56:55,150 --> 00:56:51,590 experiment ask my audiences how many 1132 00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:55,160 think it would take a thousand years a 1133 00:56:59,890 --> 00:56:58,160 hundred years ten years one year at 1g 1134 00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,900 to get to the speed of light I've had 1135 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:01,520 many many of these are professional 1136 00:57:06,700 --> 00:57:04,130 people who thought it took a thousand 1137 00:57:09,790 --> 00:57:06,710 years at 1g to get to the speed of light 1138 00:57:12,550 --> 00:57:09,800 it's less than one year that's the real 1139 00:57:15,460 --> 00:57:12,560 world I mean I'm sorry if that shocks 1140 00:57:18,070 --> 00:57:15,470 people if it bothers people but that's 1141 00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:18,080 the way it is Stan we have another 1142 00:57:23,170 --> 00:57:21,920 caller just called in so call her your 1143 00:57:26,820 --> 00:57:23,180 first name and where are you calling 1144 00:57:29,860 --> 00:57:26,830 from Andrew from Stratford Connecticut 1145 00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:29,870 hi Andrew welcome to the show and do you 1146 00:57:35,470 --> 00:57:32,990 have a question for our guests thank you 1147 00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:35,480 I do I just maybe just some Stanton's 1148 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:38,960 thoughts on the the state of affairs 1149 00:57:44,590 --> 00:57:41,210 with science today in the scientific 1150 00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:44,600 community how people like Tyson 1151 00:57:54,970 --> 00:57:52,240 send out the perception to the public 1152 00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:54,980 that you know like a lot of scientists 1153 00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:56,570 in the past you say foolish things 1154 00:58:02,040 --> 00:57:58,490 moments before some amazing discoveries 1155 00:58:04,570 --> 00:58:02,050 made they always have a condescending or 1156 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:04,580 you know kind of a know-it-all attitude 1157 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:07,130 yes but really there's just a tremendous 1158 00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:09,890 amount of information knowledge we do 1159 00:58:17,590 --> 00:58:15,280 not have yet gravity light photons 1160 00:58:20,860 --> 00:58:17,600 particle duality I mean all these things 1161 00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:20,870 and they'd have you think that right now 1162 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:23,510 we're always happy you know the ultimate 1163 00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:27,050 I said at the mountain peak of human 1164 00:58:32,380 --> 00:58:30,100 knowledge since Robin turn certainly not 1165 00:58:34,450 --> 00:58:32,390 progress as I said comes from doing 1166 00:58:37,390 --> 00:58:34,460 things differently in an unpredictable 1167 00:58:40,810 --> 00:58:37,400 way and you don't have to look very far 1168 00:58:42,930 --> 00:58:40,820 to see it and the history was Cathy and 1169 00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:42,940 I did a book science was wrong 1170 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:46,160 14 chapters we each did seven I think 1171 00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:49,010 and each one stimulated by some very 1172 00:58:53,770 --> 00:58:50,510 smart person saying something very 1173 00:58:55,660 --> 00:58:53,780 stupid a man would never fly in a 1174 00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:55,670 vehicle that was close maybe in a 1175 00:59:00,790 --> 00:58:57,530 balloon that was two months before the 1176 00:59:05,980 --> 00:59:00,800 Wright brothers first flight right right 1177 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:05,990 another one said that space travel was 1178 00:59:13,390 --> 00:59:10,210 utter bilge great astronomer said that 1179 00:59:18,580 --> 00:59:13,400 nobody's yeah can do it you know and the 1180 00:59:20,590 --> 00:59:18,590 next year Sputnik went out and that's 1181 00:59:23,170 --> 00:59:20,600 the thing that if we look in all 1182 00:59:24,790 --> 00:59:23,180 directions we don't fly you know we 1183 00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:24,800 don't speed records now propeller-driven 1184 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:28,330 airplanes we got jets and we got Rockets 1185 00:59:34,930 --> 00:59:31,010 progress comes from doing things 1186 00:59:38,550 --> 00:59:34,940 differently and it cost money okay 1187 00:59:40,990 --> 00:59:38,560 that's the way things go it costs money 1188 00:59:42,670 --> 00:59:41,000 right so just one final thought and now 1189 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:42,680 and then I'll take your answer off the 1190 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:45,050 air it would be that maybe the the next 1191 00:59:52,930 --> 00:59:47,930 task ahead for the UFO community might 1192 00:59:56,380 --> 00:59:52,940 be to change the public's perception and 1193 00:59:57,850 --> 00:59:56,390 try to remove the stigma because you 1194 00:59:58,420 --> 00:59:57,860 know you'd think that the scientific 1195 01:00:00,339 --> 00:59:58,430 community 1196 01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:00,349 would be stumbling over themselves to 1197 01:00:05,890 --> 01:00:03,760 get to this information to figure out 1198 01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:05,900 electromagnetic propulsion or whatever 1199 01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:08,960 it is they're using but people due to 1200 01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:10,640 the stigma won't touch it with a 1201 01:00:15,220 --> 01:00:11,599 ten-foot pole 1202 01:00:16,870 --> 01:00:15,230 well remember that there the stigma look 1203 01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:16,880 as I said I've been out there I've said 1204 01:00:22,359 --> 01:00:19,250 very strong things and I haven't felt 1205 01:00:23,799 --> 01:00:22,369 the stigma and so I that was one thing 1206 01:00:25,359 --> 01:00:23,809 that I noticed in the show the other 1207 01:00:28,180 --> 01:00:25,369 night that they were worried about the 1208 01:00:33,370 --> 01:00:28,190 Sigma afraid to take that final step and 1209 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:33,380 use the word alien you know no we can't 1210 01:00:38,109 --> 01:00:36,290 say that well I've been out there after 1211 01:00:40,660 --> 01:00:38,119 the first seven hundred lectures and I 1212 01:00:43,059 --> 01:00:40,670 come on very strong you know people are 1213 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:43,069 quite willing and able to accept that I 1214 01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:45,530 got asked in front of a full house at 1215 01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:47,569 the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg 1216 01:00:53,170 --> 01:00:50,510 it's about 600 people crowded with 1217 01:00:56,290 --> 01:00:53,180 people even sitting in the aisles how 1218 01:00:58,900 --> 01:00:56,300 about asking this audience I was asked 1219 01:01:01,059 --> 01:00:58,910 at the end of my lecture where they 1220 01:01:03,069 --> 01:01:01,069 stand on the subject I have presented 1221 01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:03,079 some Gallup poll data and some other 1222 01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:05,839 polls polls of engineers and scientists 1223 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:08,030 and so forth and I hesitated I said well 1224 01:01:11,319 --> 01:01:10,010 look I usually stick my neck out I don't 1225 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:11,329 know ask the other stick they're not 1226 01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:12,410 going well I don't think anybody would 1227 01:01:16,839 --> 01:01:14,510 mind so they asked the question better 1228 01:01:21,579 --> 01:01:16,849 than 90 percent said they thought some 1229 01:01:26,589 --> 01:01:21,589 UFOs or alien spacecraft I'm 10 percent 1230 01:01:29,859 --> 01:01:26,599 90 percent right so I try to encourage 1231 01:01:31,569 --> 01:01:29,869 people speak up but have your facts in 1232 01:01:36,130 --> 01:01:31,579 hand before putting your mouth and gear 1233 01:01:39,190 --> 01:01:36,140 that's all right great thank you and 1234 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:39,200 I'll let you guys go and Martin you do a 1235 01:01:42,579 --> 01:01:40,730 great show keep up the good work 1236 01:01:44,170 --> 01:01:42,589 hey thank you and Andrew do you 1237 01:01:45,339 --> 01:01:44,180 appreciate those great questions thanks 1238 01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:45,349 a lot sure 1239 01:01:51,970 --> 01:01:50,240 okay all right so yeah I think you know 1240 01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:51,980 Cathy do you want to weigh in on the 1241 01:02:00,240 --> 01:01:56,000 stigma as well well I think that Donald 1242 01:02:04,329 --> 01:02:00,250 Menzel Philip Glass and Edward Condon 1243 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:04,339 worked very very hard to place that 1244 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:09,890 stigma on scientists and did a lot in 1245 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:11,810 order to harm 1246 01:02:19,030 --> 01:02:14,690 prominent scientists who studied this 1247 01:02:22,510 --> 01:02:19,040 topic but it's time for that to be over 1248 01:02:27,310 --> 01:02:22,520 Robert Bigelow is one of the scientists 1249 01:02:32,350 --> 01:02:27,320 who is considering this and and working 1250 01:02:36,250 --> 01:02:32,360 on this very diligently and he had a 1251 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:36,260 team of 46 scientists working on this 1252 01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:39,650 and he is making great advances in terms 1253 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:44,480 of building expandable kind of 1254 01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:47,570 structures to to go into space and and 1255 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:50,960 he's really moving along and he is a 1256 01:02:58,870 --> 01:02:55,250 shining example of someone who is not 1257 01:03:01,300 --> 01:02:58,880 afraid to take the risks right on yeah I 1258 01:03:04,300 --> 01:03:01,310 saw that interview I was I was very 1259 01:03:08,740 --> 01:03:04,310 impressed he said I don't give a ton 1260 01:03:11,590 --> 01:03:08,750 what people think and I love that 1261 01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,600 attitude and all this time I had no idea 1262 01:03:16,570 --> 01:03:14,000 that he was involved in that secret 1263 01:03:20,850 --> 01:03:16,580 program or he was actually getting the 1264 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:20,860 raw data so I was amazed myself yeah 1265 01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:23,690 well I'm not surprised because I my 1266 01:03:29,950 --> 01:03:26,660 first dealings with them oh God 10 15 1267 01:03:34,780 --> 01:03:29,960 years ago I don't know long time I was a 1268 01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:34,790 young man so we're gonna be changing the 1269 01:03:40,230 --> 01:03:38,000 subject really soon so if anyone that's 1270 01:03:42,490 --> 01:03:40,240 listening live wants to call in and ask 1271 01:03:45,150 --> 01:03:42,500 specific to what we're talking about 1272 01:03:48,670 --> 01:03:45,160 right now that number is six oh three 1273 01:03:51,660 --> 01:03:48,680 nine six seven four OH three oh if 1274 01:03:57,250 --> 01:03:51,670 anyone wants to call in again that 603 1275 01:04:00,070 --> 01:03:57,260 967 403 oh and a question we're talking 1276 01:04:02,770 --> 01:04:00,080 now about you know the Pentagon's secret 1277 01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:02,780 UFO search we're going to be changing 1278 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:04,730 the subject and talking about other 1279 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:06,170 things we have a caller coming in right 1280 01:04:11,260 --> 01:04:09,530 now a call coming in right now and 1281 01:04:17,550 --> 01:04:11,270 caller your first name and where are you 1282 01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:25,000 how are you Lee Spiegel so great to have 1283 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:25,730 you calling 1284 01:04:30,980 --> 01:04:29,490 well I I just I just got home and I 1285 01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:30,990 really wanted to hear what the show is 1286 01:04:35,150 --> 01:04:33,090 gonna be about tonight so I'm not sure 1287 01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:35,160 I'm sure I've missed some great stuff 1288 01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:38,310 and and I actually have a question that 1289 01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:42,480 I've always wanted to ask Stan and Cathy 1290 01:04:44,930 --> 01:04:44,160 and I've never I've never done that 1291 01:04:50,270 --> 01:04:44,940 before 1292 01:04:52,490 --> 01:04:50,280 Oh fire away okay I mean I I admire you 1293 01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:52,500 you know of course how much I admire all 1294 01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:54,660 the work that the two of you have done I 1295 01:05:01,610 --> 01:04:57,530 mean really I have all of your books and 1296 01:05:06,020 --> 01:05:01,620 and there's a part of me that has always 1297 01:05:09,530 --> 01:05:06,030 believed that some UFOs as Stan very 1298 01:05:11,450 --> 01:05:09,540 often says in his lectures some UFOs are 1299 01:05:14,930 --> 01:05:11,460 quite possibly somebody else's 1300 01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:14,940 spacecraft I believe that as well but 1301 01:05:22,010 --> 01:05:18,960 Stan you don't often talk about whether 1302 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:22,020 or not you think that UFOs could be from 1303 01:05:28,610 --> 01:05:25,610 somewhere else not interplanetary 1304 01:05:31,340 --> 01:05:28,620 locations and I'm curious to know how 1305 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:31,350 you and how Cathy how you feel about 1306 01:05:36,830 --> 01:05:33,570 whether or not some UFOs could be 1307 01:05:39,710 --> 01:05:36,840 involved with other alternate realities 1308 01:05:41,030 --> 01:05:39,720 or dimensions could they be coming from 1309 01:05:44,090 --> 01:05:41,040 somewhere else 1310 01:05:46,070 --> 01:05:44,100 that you don't always talk about well 1311 01:05:48,670 --> 01:05:46,080 look I talk about things I know 1312 01:05:52,670 --> 01:05:48,680 something about at least I tried to 1313 01:05:54,350 --> 01:05:52,680 and I certainly allow for a great deal 1314 01:05:57,170 --> 01:05:54,360 about the UFOs that we don't know 1315 01:06:01,360 --> 01:05:57,180 anything about I think they may know a 1316 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:01,370 great deal about warping space and time 1317 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:04,170 how do they get through walls without 1318 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:07,050 making holes in the walls I mean this is 1319 01:06:12,350 --> 01:06:09,570 pretty far-out stuff but since I don't 1320 01:06:14,780 --> 01:06:12,360 know how to do those things I say look 1321 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:14,790 we're young they're old they've been at 1322 01:06:18,650 --> 01:06:17,010 this a long time I guarantee you that 1323 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:18,660 there will be things that they know 1324 01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:21,330 about that we don't know about but since 1325 01:06:26,450 --> 01:06:22,590 I don't know about now what can I say 1326 01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:26,460 about it leave room so you you would be 1327 01:06:31,460 --> 01:06:29,280 open to the possibility that maybe then 1328 01:06:33,590 --> 01:06:31,470 they're not or maybe all of them are not 1329 01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,600 just coming from other planets and want 1330 01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:35,220 to say all of them I mean you know the 1331 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:37,770 small percent that can't be explained 1332 01:06:43,250 --> 01:06:39,450 and that's a big number that small 1333 01:06:45,770 --> 01:06:43,260 percent well yeah biggest study Bluebook 1334 01:06:48,410 --> 01:06:45,780 special report 14 remember 21 and a half 1335 01:06:51,020 --> 01:06:48,420 percent even though the Air Force that 1336 01:06:52,730 --> 01:06:51,030 even the unknown three percent what's 1337 01:06:56,060 --> 01:06:52,740 the difference between three and twenty 1338 01:06:59,950 --> 01:06:56,070 one and a half a little deception here 1339 01:07:04,190 --> 01:06:59,960 in there never hurt anybody did it yeah 1340 01:07:07,490 --> 01:07:04,200 and also I'm just I'm also curious do 1341 01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:07,500 you feel that Project Blue Book never 1342 01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:12,330 really ended ah good question I think 1343 01:07:17,860 --> 01:07:14,760 they changed the name yeah I mean that 1344 01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:17,870 that's when I go back to Bohlander 1345 01:07:23,930 --> 01:07:20,730 remember that reports of UFOs which 1346 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:23,940 could affect national security are not 1347 01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:29,370 part of the Blue Book system so where 1348 01:07:34,010 --> 01:07:31,470 did the reports go that could affect 1349 01:07:37,370 --> 01:07:34,020 national security right would say 1350 01:07:41,780 --> 01:07:37,380 majestic 12 and now I'd say the new 1351 01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:41,790 stuff so I certainly don't think we've 1352 01:07:47,870 --> 01:07:45,180 had the full story told us I would be 1353 01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:47,880 astonished if they could if they have 1354 01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:50,490 told us the full story you see I'm a 1355 01:07:53,980 --> 01:07:52,770 believer that security has a place in 1356 01:07:57,290 --> 01:07:53,990 all this stuff 1357 01:07:59,030 --> 01:07:57,300 did we want anybody around to be able to 1358 01:08:02,600 --> 01:07:59,040 get his mitts on the technology that 1359 01:08:03,620 --> 01:08:02,610 that to duplicate UFO flight behavior I 1360 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:03,630 don't think so 1361 01:08:07,130 --> 01:08:05,370 scares the heck out of me somebody's 1362 01:08:10,250 --> 01:08:07,140 going to use that no war on this planet 1363 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:10,260 you know whether us are the Russians of 1364 01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:13,530 the Chinese or who knows so I think 1365 01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:15,510 there's a place where you don't want 1366 01:08:20,570 --> 01:08:18,330 some rogue guy on the outside say hey I 1367 01:08:22,220 --> 01:08:20,580 can work a little hard I can figure out 1368 01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:22,230 how these things work and I'll take all 1369 01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:26,130 these guys out that scares me security 1370 01:08:32,930 --> 01:08:29,580 has a role here Cathy a use kid how 1371 01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:32,940 about anything like this well first of 1372 01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:38,130 all let me say that in terms of them 1373 01:08:47,570 --> 01:08:42,480 being interdimensional Lee I I have done 1374 01:08:50,300 --> 01:08:47,580 a lot of investigations for the mutual 1375 01:08:52,750 --> 01:08:50,310 UFO network and independently as well 1376 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:52,760 and 1377 01:08:59,580 --> 01:08:54,890 it just slaps you in the face you can't 1378 01:09:03,550 --> 01:08:59,590 turn away from it that a lot of this is 1379 01:09:07,270 --> 01:09:03,560 interdimensional craft phasing in and 1380 01:09:14,140 --> 01:09:07,280 out non-human entities phasing in and 1381 01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:14,150 out I have video of light orbs that 1382 01:09:20,890 --> 01:09:16,370 appeared to be intelligently controlled 1383 01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:20,900 that can be seen with the naked eye and 1384 01:09:29,340 --> 01:09:26,410 are also recorded on video I have 1385 01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:29,350 photographs of what appear to be 1386 01:09:37,480 --> 01:09:33,620 non-human entities phasing in the stage 1387 01:09:40,210 --> 01:09:37,490 of phasing in or out there's something 1388 01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:40,220 going on here that is way beyond our 1389 01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:44,210 understanding of science and my big 1390 01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:47,530 question is is all of this 1391 01:09:56,170 --> 01:09:53,170 interdimensional or and are there 1392 01:09:59,380 --> 01:09:56,180 interdimensional entities living on 1393 01:10:01,360 --> 01:09:59,390 other planets coming say there are fifth 1394 01:10:06,190 --> 01:10:01,370 dimensional and coming to our three 1395 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:06,200 dimensional environment or are there 1396 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:09,730 entities who have interdimensional 1397 01:10:16,930 --> 01:10:14,570 technology and are able to use that but 1398 01:10:19,180 --> 01:10:16,940 there's something going on here that is 1399 01:10:21,820 --> 01:10:19,190 definitely interdimensional and it is a 1400 01:10:25,390 --> 01:10:21,830 little frightening to think about it but 1401 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:25,400 you know reality is reality you have to 1402 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:28,850 face it and try to figure out you know 1403 01:10:33,070 --> 01:10:30,530 try to solve the problem as 1404 01:10:35,470 --> 01:10:33,080 scientifically as possible and that's 1405 01:10:38,530 --> 01:10:35,480 something that free I think is working 1406 01:10:40,930 --> 01:10:38,540 on found the Edgar Mitchell foundation 1407 01:10:43,300 --> 01:10:40,940 for research into extraterrestrial and 1408 01:10:48,910 --> 01:10:43,310 extraordinary encounters with people 1409 01:10:51,490 --> 01:10:48,920 like dr. Rudi shield who and Claude 1410 01:10:54,430 --> 01:10:51,500 Swanson dr. Claude Swanson is another 1411 01:10:57,580 --> 01:10:54,440 one who are working on this sort of 1412 01:11:00,400 --> 01:10:57,590 thing I think maybe and Martin Hart 1413 01:11:02,170 --> 01:11:00,410 Martin can I ask you a question oh yes I 1414 01:11:03,610 --> 01:11:02,180 was gonna I just had a little comment to 1415 01:11:06,069 --> 01:11:03,620 make about that but go ahead ask me the 1416 01:11:10,209 --> 01:11:06,079 question well the question to you Martin 1417 01:11:13,060 --> 01:11:10,219 I think your audience would probably be 1418 01:11:15,100 --> 01:11:13,070 interested to know how you feel about 1419 01:11:20,609 --> 01:11:15,110 this like is there anything about the 1420 01:11:24,910 --> 01:11:20,619 UFO subject that either frightens you or 1421 01:11:27,189 --> 01:11:24,920 or makes you want to give it up because 1422 01:11:29,410 --> 01:11:27,199 I've had many times in my life where I 1423 01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:29,420 wanted to just put it aside and not go 1424 01:11:34,810 --> 01:11:33,170 anywhere near it anymore well I I do get 1425 01:11:38,140 --> 01:11:34,820 that you know perhaps I haven't been at 1426 01:11:40,750 --> 01:11:38,150 it long enough you know to to feel that 1427 01:11:42,910 --> 01:11:40,760 as of right now I still feel as though 1428 01:11:45,370 --> 01:11:42,920 it's it's fascinating and I love to hear 1429 01:11:47,290 --> 01:11:45,380 I love to hear the stories would love to 1430 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:47,300 hear people's thoughts on what it may be 1431 01:11:53,970 --> 01:11:51,170 and as as Kathy was talking just then I 1432 01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:53,980 was thinking to myself I wonder if 1433 01:12:03,129 --> 01:11:57,610 interdimensional is somehow linked to 1434 01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:03,139 travel you know I'd like what shark 1435 01:12:08,410 --> 01:12:06,530 Veliz Chevelle a says is you know it's 1436 01:12:11,890 --> 01:12:08,420 probably something we don't even know 1437 01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:11,900 about or understand and that's you know 1438 01:12:16,060 --> 01:12:14,510 or and I've said this a number of times 1439 01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:16,070 probably something we have now to even 1440 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:19,280 thought of yet could could be part of it 1441 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:19,730 as well 1442 01:12:30,069 --> 01:12:27,050 so I mean we don't know at all but I 1443 01:12:32,290 --> 01:12:30,079 love there's a quote I don't know if if 1444 01:12:34,629 --> 01:12:32,300 Stan has already given you this quote 1445 01:12:37,149 --> 01:12:34,639 today but I always quote Stan Friedman 1446 01:12:39,850 --> 01:12:37,159 on one thing that he says I think in 1447 01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:39,860 every single lecture he ever gives and 1448 01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:44,210 that and that quote is he says when when 1449 01:12:49,450 --> 01:12:47,030 somebody says that bit of UFO behavior 1450 01:12:51,939 --> 01:12:49,460 is impossible what they're really saying 1451 01:12:53,290 --> 01:12:51,949 is I don't know how to do that and if I 1452 01:12:56,290 --> 01:12:53,300 don't know how to do that well then it 1453 01:12:57,790 --> 01:12:56,300 must be impossible I think he's sort of 1454 01:12:58,060 --> 01:12:57,800 you sort of touched on something like 1455 01:13:00,939 --> 01:12:58,070 that 1456 01:13:03,899 --> 01:13:00,949 Stan earlier yeah yeah and it was a 1457 01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:03,909 mistake I was making too by the way Lee 1458 01:13:09,580 --> 01:13:07,250 Lee I loved I loved when you called and 1459 01:13:11,589 --> 01:13:09,590 when you call in and thanks so much I 1460 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:11,599 really it's always great having you on 1461 01:13:15,370 --> 01:13:13,730 the show it's great to hear your voice 1462 01:13:16,140 --> 01:13:15,380 is non-medical listen to the rest of the 1463 01:13:18,819 --> 01:13:16,150 show okay 1464 01:13:19,939 --> 01:13:18,829 happy new year all right same to you 1465 01:13:22,370 --> 01:13:19,949 thank you all of you 1466 01:13:25,490 --> 01:13:22,380 all right Thank You Riley take care all 1467 01:13:27,770 --> 01:13:25,500 right so we had a couple people trying 1468 01:13:28,669 --> 01:13:27,780 to call in and we are getting ready to 1469 01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:28,679 change the subject 1470 01:13:37,669 --> 01:13:31,260 so if those people would like to try 1471 01:13:40,939 --> 01:13:37,679 back again that number is 603 967 403 oh 1472 01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:40,949 and I will just put that on the in the 1473 01:13:46,780 --> 01:13:45,120 chat room as well so yeah we had a 1474 01:13:50,330 --> 01:13:46,790 couple of people trying to call in and 1475 01:13:52,220 --> 01:13:50,340 yeah I think one one part of the 1476 01:13:55,310 --> 01:13:52,230 question that I didn't answer and that 1477 01:13:59,360 --> 01:13:55,320 was does anything scare me and right now 1478 01:14:01,490 --> 01:13:59,370 I would say I can't think of anything 1479 01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:01,500 unless I ever saw some type of 1480 01:14:05,930 --> 01:14:03,360 aggression you know and we haven't 1481 01:14:08,030 --> 01:14:05,940 really seen much of that or there isn't 1482 01:14:09,770 --> 01:14:08,040 too many cases where there's aggression 1483 01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:09,780 we have another caller on the line 1484 01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:11,730 caller your first name and where you're 1485 01:14:19,850 --> 01:14:17,190 calling from I'm Matt I'm a computer 1486 01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:19,860 science student and part-time physicist 1487 01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:23,040 at on my free time but uh I wanted to 1488 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:24,780 call and kind of get a few facts 1489 01:14:28,729 --> 01:14:27,210 straight before I mentioned my idea and 1490 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:28,739 if it's all right I'm going to kind of 1491 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:30,810 continue what you were guys were talking 1492 01:14:37,330 --> 01:14:33,810 about last but also talk to a fan and 1493 01:14:40,459 --> 01:14:37,340 Margaret and a Katherine about the about 1494 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:40,469 nuclear physics if they have time for a 1495 01:14:46,700 --> 01:14:43,130 couple questions sure yeah go ahead fire 1496 01:14:50,060 --> 01:14:46,710 all right so to get my one fax rate that 1497 01:14:53,570 --> 01:14:50,070 I need to know from Martin we saw a UFO 1498 01:14:55,459 --> 01:14:53,580 that was separated under the water and 1499 01:14:56,270 --> 01:14:55,469 above the water at one time what that 1500 01:15:00,050 --> 01:14:56,280 report it correctly 1501 01:15:01,970 --> 01:15:00,060 that wasn't my sighting no not not I 1502 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:01,980 know wasn't your sighting but I heard it 1503 01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:05,730 I heard I heard about it from you and 1504 01:15:12,820 --> 01:15:09,449 another Robert Powell video Robert yeah 1505 01:15:15,650 --> 01:15:12,830 Powell that was the Puerto Rican UFO 1506 01:15:18,950 --> 01:15:15,660 mysteriously appeared to go under the 1507 01:15:20,570 --> 01:15:18,960 water and back out of the water all 1508 01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:20,580 right that makes sense all right 1509 01:15:27,050 --> 01:15:24,050 um and I went so quickly to Stan about 1510 01:15:29,930 --> 01:15:27,060 molten salt water fusion reactors 1511 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:33,419 molten fusion reactors being used 1512 01:15:39,029 --> 01:15:37,090 for a for this power source 1513 01:15:41,699 --> 01:15:39,039 would they have would you have to 1514 01:15:45,239 --> 01:15:41,709 displace the superheated water and pick 1515 01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:45,249 up more salt water at a point I don't 1516 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:48,489 know I have a lucky salt water it means 1517 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:52,090 for any of this stuff going on sorry I I 1518 01:15:58,439 --> 01:15:54,010 thought I seen working on the theory a 1519 01:16:01,379 --> 01:15:58,449 little bit about that and about more I 1520 01:16:02,850 --> 01:16:01,389 think that there are the one vehicles 1521 01:16:04,679 --> 01:16:02,860 that we keep seeing that everyone has 1522 01:16:07,669 --> 01:16:04,689 kind of led to saying that the 1523 01:16:09,929 --> 01:16:07,679 inter-dimensional ones the perfectly 1524 01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:09,939 saucer-shaped ones that have the aura 1525 01:16:15,660 --> 01:16:12,719 around them that we believe is more 1526 01:16:18,149 --> 01:16:15,670 included to being the interdimensional 1527 01:16:20,609 --> 01:16:18,159 beams and then we also have the v-shape 1528 01:16:23,790 --> 01:16:20,619 aircraft that we've seen more in hiring 1529 01:16:25,649 --> 01:16:23,800 a sky like the Phoenix plates for 1530 01:16:28,739 --> 01:16:25,659 example that was more something that we 1531 01:16:31,410 --> 01:16:28,749 expended probably not these small 1532 01:16:38,129 --> 01:16:31,420 saucers to the actual larger craft well 1533 01:16:40,169 --> 01:16:38,139 I think there are motherhood ships - I'm 1534 01:16:43,410 --> 01:16:40,179 emo Stefan Utley I believe that that was 1535 01:16:46,529 --> 01:16:43,420 one the case with that I've been working 1536 01:16:49,350 --> 01:16:46,539 on in my part-time on an idea of 1537 01:16:53,009 --> 01:16:49,360 plasmatic superconducting entanglement 1538 01:16:56,580 --> 01:16:53,019 it is where we use essentials having a 1539 01:16:58,979 --> 01:16:56,590 plasma source being able to control the 1540 01:17:01,500 --> 01:16:58,989 air their speed leveling and stuff like 1541 01:17:04,379 --> 01:17:01,510 that what it is possible because of 1542 01:17:08,009 --> 01:17:04,389 these events where we've seen deep 1543 01:17:10,279 --> 01:17:08,019 crafts either go into the water or go in 1544 01:17:14,939 --> 01:17:10,289 go towards water for saltwater 1545 01:17:17,189 --> 01:17:14,949 capabilities yes it was an idea of 1546 01:17:20,069 --> 01:17:17,199 entanglement and an idea of having a 1547 01:17:22,259 --> 01:17:20,079 craft as a separate device where it can 1548 01:17:24,149 --> 01:17:22,269 either go into a wave state or a 1549 01:17:25,799 --> 01:17:24,159 particle state that would be able to 1550 01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:25,809 create it in a possibility to be able to 1551 01:17:30,179 --> 01:17:28,090 go through walls and those other events 1552 01:17:33,270 --> 01:17:30,189 that we have seen that we can't explain 1553 01:17:35,549 --> 01:17:33,280 and I don't know if anyone's I don't 1554 01:17:40,859 --> 01:17:35,559 have the answer for that question but I 1555 01:17:44,189 --> 01:17:40,869 I would say this that I certainly need 1556 01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:44,199 to point out that sea water is an 1557 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:46,510 electrically conducting fluid and air 1558 01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:47,290 plasma 1559 01:17:53,100 --> 01:17:49,980 as an electrically conducting fluid 1560 01:17:56,780 --> 01:17:53,110 there was built an electromagnetic 1561 01:17:59,160 --> 01:17:56,790 submarine that operated in salt water 1562 01:18:02,280 --> 01:17:59,170 Westinghouse research lab scientists 1563 01:18:06,510 --> 01:18:02,290 Stewart away build one of these and they 1564 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:06,520 published a paper about them so I want 1565 01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:07,930 to make sure that you understand the 1566 01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:09,310 analogy I'm trying to make between 1567 01:18:13,260 --> 01:18:11,530 electrically conducting fluid seawater 1568 01:18:20,580 --> 01:18:13,270 in the one hand and ionized there and 1569 01:18:24,270 --> 01:18:20,590 the other parcel the same idea whoops 1570 01:18:27,150 --> 01:18:24,280 Stan you there yeah I'm here okay just 1571 01:18:29,130 --> 01:18:27,160 had a I think we just lost 1572 01:18:34,980 --> 01:18:29,140 Matt Matt thanks for the call 1573 01:18:37,050 --> 01:18:34,990 interesting and all right so let's see 1574 01:18:38,700 --> 01:18:37,060 we have a guy that it's been trying to 1575 01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:38,710 call in over and over again and we keep 1576 01:18:44,790 --> 01:18:41,170 missing him and I'm sure he will be 1577 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:44,800 calling in so we're gonna be changing 1578 01:18:49,650 --> 01:18:47,050 the subject I wanted to something I've 1579 01:18:52,170 --> 01:18:49,660 never had you both on at one time now 1580 01:18:54,540 --> 01:18:52,180 Kathy when I first met you I was 1581 01:18:57,150 --> 01:18:54,550 actually at your house and Newburyport 1582 01:19:02,010 --> 01:18:57,160 Mass and I we talked about the Betty and 1583 01:19:03,780 --> 01:19:02,020 Barney Hill yes case so that's the 1584 01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:03,790 subject I want to go in but we have this 1585 01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:05,380 guy who's been trying to call here he is 1586 01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:09,250 finally okay alright caller your first 1587 01:19:16,650 --> 01:19:14,320 name and where you calling from Brian 1588 01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:16,660 I'm sorry couldn't take your call you 1589 01:19:21,180 --> 01:19:18,610 called the exact second right after 1590 01:19:25,230 --> 01:19:21,190 someone else did so go ahead you have a 1591 01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:25,240 question for our guests yeah they want 1592 01:19:31,260 --> 01:19:27,850 to make a quick comment first to stand I 1593 01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:31,270 do want to say that even though Marvin 1594 01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:34,000 will tell you I am a skeptic or what you 1595 01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:35,890 would call a healthy agnostic I do want 1596 01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:39,100 to say I do appreciate your your hard 1597 01:19:43,260 --> 01:19:41,650 work and your honest really good 1598 01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:43,270 research you've done over the years on 1599 01:19:48,180 --> 01:19:45,730 this topic it's very much appreciated 1600 01:19:54,510 --> 01:19:48,190 even even either from skeptics like me 1601 01:19:59,700 --> 01:19:58,500 I wanted to say on ask you about 1602 01:20:03,900 --> 01:19:59,710 something you talked about earlier you 1603 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:03,910 had spoken about the perils of aliens 1604 01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:08,010 contacting us of you know whatever 1605 01:20:12,830 --> 01:20:11,410 technology we got from them we would 1606 01:20:16,290 --> 01:20:12,840 just use to kill each other which is 1607 01:20:19,860 --> 01:20:16,300 probably true but do you ever wonder why 1608 01:20:23,460 --> 01:20:19,870 they don't make contact with us and give 1609 01:20:26,550 --> 01:20:23,470 us more benign technology I mean for 1610 01:20:29,100 --> 01:20:26,560 example we already have nuclear weapons 1611 01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:29,110 you know perhaps they could give us 1612 01:20:33,450 --> 01:20:31,170 something like thorium reactors or 1613 01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:33,460 potentially fusion we already have the 1614 01:20:37,230 --> 01:20:35,170 h-bomb or something like that that could 1615 01:20:40,650 --> 01:20:37,240 solve our environmental and energy 1616 01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:40,660 issues well I think that they're here 1617 01:20:44,610 --> 01:20:42,370 because they're concerned about us 1618 01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:44,620 because we're a primitive society whose 1619 01:20:51,300 --> 01:20:48,610 major activity is tribal warfare 50 1620 01:20:53,220 --> 01:20:51,310 million killed in one war is saying a 1621 01:20:55,860 --> 01:20:53,230 heck of a lot about us none of it good 1622 01:20:59,370 --> 01:20:55,870 really I think that the Galactic 1623 01:21:02,070 --> 01:20:59,380 Federation wants to make sure that 1624 01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:02,080 people on one planet beings on one 1625 01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:04,990 planet don't go to war and use their 1626 01:21:10,350 --> 01:21:07,690 technology to beat up on beings from 1627 01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:10,360 another planet we that's the only way we 1628 01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:12,010 solve our problems on this planet let's 1629 01:21:14,910 --> 01:21:13,450 have a little war and I'll take over 1630 01:21:16,710 --> 01:21:14,920 your land and then somebody else will 1631 01:21:21,660 --> 01:21:16,720 come along and do the same thing in you 1632 01:21:23,190 --> 01:21:21,670 know I I hope that there are parts of 1633 01:21:25,620 --> 01:21:23,200 the neighborhood where they've gone past 1634 01:21:28,110 --> 01:21:25,630 that stage where they recognize we have 1635 01:21:29,850 --> 01:21:28,120 to learn to get along with each other 1636 01:21:35,610 --> 01:21:29,860 because we have a capability of 1637 01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,620 destroying so much so readily so I think 1638 01:21:41,130 --> 01:21:38,320 that aliens wouldn't dare to give us 1639 01:21:44,220 --> 01:21:41,140 technology whoo why would they but trust 1640 01:21:48,060 --> 01:21:44,230 us with our track record as I say 50 1641 01:21:52,250 --> 01:21:48,070 million in one war seventeen hundred 1642 01:21:55,230 --> 01:21:52,260 cities destroyed in that one war I a 1643 01:21:58,620 --> 01:21:55,240 budget this year of the trillion dollars 1644 01:22:01,410 --> 01:21:58,630 on things military how could they give 1645 01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:01,420 us any technology I think what they want 1646 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:05,290 to do is make sure we don't spread our 1647 01:22:08,460 --> 01:22:07,090 brand of friendship which everybody else 1648 01:22:10,260 --> 01:22:08,470 calls us still 1649 01:22:13,140 --> 01:22:10,270 in other words I think we're a rogue 1650 01:22:14,850 --> 01:22:13,150 price maybe this is the devil's island 1651 01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:14,860 of this corner of the galaxy they dumped 1652 01:22:18,030 --> 01:22:16,330 all the bad boys and girls here that's 1653 01:22:21,180 --> 01:22:18,040 why we're so nasty to each other you 1654 01:22:24,810 --> 01:22:21,190 know I don't know but let's hope we've 1655 01:22:27,390 --> 01:22:24,820 only had sophisticated technology for 1656 01:22:29,670 --> 01:22:27,400 hundreds thousands tens of thousands of 1657 01:22:32,700 --> 01:22:29,680 years and they'd find it anyway you want 1658 01:22:35,190 --> 01:22:32,710 planets been around for billion years so 1659 01:22:38,190 --> 01:22:35,200 surely others in the universe at least 1660 01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:38,200 13 billion surely others have decided 1661 01:22:41,970 --> 01:22:40,480 that you know what spending all our 1662 01:22:44,910 --> 01:22:41,980 effort killing each other doesn't make a 1663 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:44,920 lot of sense guys maybe we ought to grow 1664 01:22:50,670 --> 01:22:48,370 up a little bit and so you know that 1665 01:22:54,780 --> 01:22:50,680 that's what I don't think that they 1666 01:22:58,140 --> 01:22:54,790 consider I don't talk to the ants you 1667 01:23:02,880 --> 01:22:58,150 know or even the rabbits which have 1668 01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:02,890 intelligence but limited technology so I 1669 01:23:08,580 --> 01:23:05,920 I would be astonished if aliens would be 1670 01:23:11,940 --> 01:23:08,590 willing to give us anything 1671 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:11,950 they make given us an example we know 1672 01:23:16,410 --> 01:23:14,130 that there are other beings out there 1673 01:23:18,180 --> 01:23:16,420 even though governments may not want to 1674 01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:18,190 say that very loudly although they did 1675 01:23:26,700 --> 01:23:23,190 very recently a couple weeks ago so I 1676 01:23:31,070 --> 01:23:26,710 don't expect them I can't see any point 1677 01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:31,080 at all and they're giving us any kind of 1678 01:23:36,750 --> 01:23:33,760 technology along those lines I'd like to 1679 01:23:38,340 --> 01:23:36,760 thank you for your call Ryan I would 1680 01:23:40,590 --> 01:23:38,350 like to say you know kind of as a 1681 01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:40,600 follow-up that you know I mentioned 1682 01:23:46,140 --> 01:23:43,810 benign technology technology possible 1683 01:23:48,750 --> 01:23:46,150 you can turn the weapons that even in 1684 01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:48,760 that case I mean possibly they would sit 1685 01:23:54,210 --> 01:23:51,870 back and they would think that you know 1686 01:23:56,460 --> 01:23:54,220 anything we give them I mean you know 1687 01:23:58,710 --> 01:23:56,470 it's or any place we'd land it's just 1688 01:24:00,510 --> 01:23:58,720 going to further divide them you know 1689 01:24:02,730 --> 01:24:00,520 what I mean I mean to say if they hand 1690 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:02,740 it in in New York they know somebody's 1691 01:24:06,710 --> 01:24:04,570 gonna say why didn't you land in Beijing 1692 01:24:09,410 --> 01:24:06,720 or you know you know what I mean yeah 1693 01:24:11,850 --> 01:24:09,420 yeah oh thanks for the call Ryan 1694 01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:11,860 hey thanks for taking our pleasure speak 1695 01:24:19,580 --> 01:24:14,760 to you alright so along those lines I 1696 01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:19,590 wanted to ask what you thought about 1697 01:24:24,300 --> 01:24:22,000 part of what the 1698 01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:24,310 the government supposedly was doing in 1699 01:24:30,870 --> 01:24:27,850 this study was and and also to what to 1700 01:24:35,010 --> 01:24:30,880 the Stars is planning on doing is to do 1701 01:24:38,490 --> 01:24:35,020 like reverse engineering to or somehow 1702 01:24:41,310 --> 01:24:38,500 to figure out you know how to duplicate 1703 01:24:43,410 --> 01:24:41,320 the technology they're seeing so I 1704 01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:43,420 wonder think who's gonna pay for it and 1705 01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:45,970 who's gonna protect it so that idiots on 1706 01:24:51,870 --> 01:24:48,450 the planet don't get their hands on it 1707 01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:51,880 so in a private company you can't really 1708 01:25:04,130 --> 01:24:54,970 protect you know something from getting 1709 01:25:12,090 --> 01:25:09,390 that somebody figures out how to be like 1710 01:25:14,580 --> 01:25:12,100 these guys and uses it to swat the rest 1711 01:25:16,350 --> 01:25:14,590 of it and in our technological 1712 01:25:18,300 --> 01:25:16,360 development would have to be pretty 1713 01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:18,310 close to theirs for us to be able to 1714 01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:21,520 back engineer it so that's true that you 1715 01:25:28,470 --> 01:25:25,450 have to consider yeah good point yeah 1716 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:28,480 yeah all right well let's let's go into 1717 01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:34,810 Betty and Barney land and so for I would 1718 01:25:41,790 --> 01:25:38,530 say probably 95% of the people listening 1719 01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:41,800 right now are familiar with the case but 1720 01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:44,770 in a nutshell let's just talk about what 1721 01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:48,130 happened Cathy go ahead and just if you 1722 01:25:55,500 --> 01:25:51,010 can as quickly as you can summarize what 1723 01:25:58,650 --> 01:25:55,510 happened back in 1961 yes okay 1724 01:26:00,750 --> 01:25:58,660 September 19 1961 Betty and Barney are 1725 01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:00,760 returning from a vacation to Niagara 1726 01:26:10,020 --> 01:26:03,570 Falls and then they went up to Montreal 1727 01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:10,030 Toronto first and and then they decided 1728 01:26:17,340 --> 01:26:13,090 to instead of staying in Montreal to to 1729 01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:17,350 drive home and along the way they had a 1730 01:26:24,210 --> 01:26:21,520 close encounter with a flying disc it 1731 01:26:28,260 --> 01:26:24,220 came within a hundred feet of their 1732 01:26:30,510 --> 01:26:28,270 vehicle Barney got out of the car looked 1733 01:26:33,090 --> 01:26:30,520 at it through binoculars it descended 1734 01:26:35,430 --> 01:26:33,100 even lower something started to drop out 1735 01:26:35,910 --> 01:26:35,440 of the bottom he had conscious recall of 1736 01:26:38,820 --> 01:26:35,920 observed 1737 01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:38,830 non-human entities looking down at him 1738 01:26:46,500 --> 01:26:43,170 ran back to the car in a state of terror 1739 01:26:48,959 --> 01:26:46,510 heard he and Betty heard code like 1740 01:26:51,090 --> 01:26:48,969 buzzing sounds striking the trunk of the 1741 01:26:53,310 --> 01:26:51,100 car caused the car to vibrate because 1742 01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:53,320 there a tingling sensation to pass 1743 01:26:57,330 --> 01:26:55,570 through their bodies and the next thing 1744 01:26:59,220 --> 01:26:57,340 they're know there were thirty five 1745 01:27:02,340 --> 01:26:59,230 miles down the highway 1746 01:27:04,979 --> 01:27:02,350 they had spotty memories of encountering 1747 01:27:06,540 --> 01:27:04,989 a roadblock somewhere along the way they 1748 01:27:11,340 --> 01:27:06,550 didn't know when or where it occurred 1749 01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:11,350 they had memories of a second series of 1750 01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:14,800 buzzing sounds memories of a fiery orb 1751 01:27:21,270 --> 01:27:17,520 that seemed to be sitting on the ground 1752 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:21,280 and when they arrived home in Portsmouth 1753 01:27:26,340 --> 01:27:24,370 New Hampshire it was two to three hours 1754 01:27:29,390 --> 01:27:26,350 later than their anticipated arrival 1755 01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:29,400 time Betty's dress was torn there were 1756 01:27:34,979 --> 01:27:32,370 magnetic spots on the trunk of the car 1757 01:27:37,340 --> 01:27:34,989 Barney's best dress shoes were so deeply 1758 01:27:41,189 --> 01:27:37,350 scraped that he had to buy new shoes 1759 01:27:45,450 --> 01:27:41,199 their watches were no longer working 1760 01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:45,460 never worked again and caused many 1761 01:27:54,979 --> 01:27:48,250 problems for them wow that was really 1762 01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:57,750 so witty better at it yeah that's right 1763 01:28:01,140 --> 01:27:59,679 so by the way of the listener that 1764 01:28:04,590 --> 01:28:01,150 doesn't know this 1765 01:28:08,850 --> 01:28:04,600 this is Betty Hill's niece Kathy Martin 1766 01:28:11,459 --> 01:28:08,860 speaking right now so Kathy wasn't it 1767 01:28:13,340 --> 01:28:11,469 like the next day you heard from your 1768 01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:13,350 aunt I mean you heard this was happening 1769 01:28:18,060 --> 01:28:15,489 well it was actually the day they 1770 01:28:19,950 --> 01:28:18,070 arrived home this happened on the night 1771 01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:19,960 of the 19th and into the early morning 1772 01:28:26,820 --> 01:28:23,650 hours of the 20th the abduction was 1773 01:28:30,390 --> 01:28:26,830 around from midnight a little after 1774 01:28:33,780 --> 01:28:30,400 until about 2:00 to 2:30 in the morning 1775 01:28:37,020 --> 01:28:33,790 and so I heard about it that afternoon 1776 01:28:39,540 --> 01:28:37,030 when Betty called my mother I was home 1777 01:28:41,070 --> 01:28:39,550 from school and what did you you were a 1778 01:28:44,820 --> 01:28:41,080 young child what did you think at the 1779 01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:44,830 time I was 13 years old and I was very 1780 01:28:49,859 --> 01:28:49,449 curious and fascinated by this and did 1781 01:28:54,689 --> 01:28:49,869 you 1782 01:29:00,540 --> 01:28:54,699 because I know this didn't actually come 1783 01:29:03,239 --> 01:29:00,550 out for a while yes we were told that we 1784 01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:03,249 could not repeat anything that we heard 1785 01:29:09,779 --> 01:29:07,090 that they would tell us what they knew 1786 01:29:12,449 --> 01:29:09,789 what they learned as they explored this 1787 01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:12,459 but that we could not repeat it so we 1788 01:29:20,639 --> 01:29:15,760 had to speak only within the family 1789 01:29:23,549 --> 01:29:20,649 about it now how the word yeah how how 1790 01:29:26,549 --> 01:29:23,559 big was your family did you have set you 1791 01:29:30,689 --> 01:29:26,559 have siblings I had two brothers who 1792 01:29:32,759 --> 01:29:30,699 were younger than I was I am my mother 1793 01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:32,769 my father I had aunts and uncles and 1794 01:29:37,679 --> 01:29:35,199 cousins my grandparents lived across the 1795 01:29:40,830 --> 01:29:37,689 street from me these are Betty's parents 1796 01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:40,840 so I had quite a few family members that 1797 01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:43,090 I could talk to - and did everyone 1798 01:29:49,739 --> 01:29:46,090 actually keep it in did it stay the 1799 01:29:54,929 --> 01:29:49,749 family secret so to speak as far as I 1800 01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:54,939 know it did Betty and Barney told some 1801 01:30:00,350 --> 01:29:57,010 of their friends they told the airforce 1802 01:30:04,199 --> 01:30:00,360 they told scientists they told NICAP and 1803 01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:04,209 you know eventually there were there was 1804 01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:07,570 a violation of confidentiality Betty and 1805 01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:09,610 Barney spoke to the two state study 1806 01:30:16,049 --> 01:30:12,489 group in Quincy Massachusetts about 1807 01:30:20,699 --> 01:30:16,059 their sighting and Betty spoke a little 1808 01:30:25,589 --> 01:30:20,709 bit about how her dream was the same as 1809 01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:25,599 part of her sighting and that it kind of 1810 01:30:36,739 --> 01:30:29,050 leaked out from there one of Betty's new 1811 01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:36,749 friends who was the UFO investigator 1812 01:30:47,569 --> 01:30:41,800 ended up talking to a newspaper reporter 1813 01:30:50,729 --> 01:30:47,579 by the name of John luttrell and he 1814 01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:50,739 contacted Betty and Barney and he wrote 1815 01:30:56,189 --> 01:30:53,280 them a letter in fact and he said that 1816 01:30:59,159 --> 01:30:56,199 he used her name and he said he'd been 1817 01:31:02,629 --> 01:30:59,169 talking to her and that he wanted to 1818 01:31:05,780 --> 01:31:02,639 talk with them if if they were anywhere 1819 01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:05,790 near as nice as this woman said they 1820 01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:09,090 were than I he knew that he would enjoy 1821 01:31:15,830 --> 01:31:11,610 the discussion he even promised them 1822 01:31:19,399 --> 01:31:15,840 that he would not make this material or 1823 01:31:22,340 --> 01:31:19,409 a commercial venture whatsoever if they 1824 01:31:26,899 --> 01:31:22,350 would only talk to him and he said they 1825 01:31:29,629 --> 01:31:26,909 said absolutely not we don't want anyone 1826 01:31:35,390 --> 01:31:29,639 to to know about this we could lose our 1827 01:31:38,180 --> 01:31:35,400 jobs and lo and behold only a couple of 1828 01:31:42,379 --> 01:31:38,190 months after he talked to them it came 1829 01:31:46,459 --> 01:31:42,389 out in the boston traveler and it was 1830 01:31:50,750 --> 01:31:46,469 carried for five nights or five days in 1831 01:31:51,470 --> 01:31:50,760 in a row Wow and and really caused a big 1832 01:31:54,410 --> 01:31:51,480 stir 1833 01:31:58,100 --> 01:31:54,420 Betty and Barney were extremely upset 1834 01:32:00,979 --> 01:31:58,110 about this they came down to my 1835 01:32:03,830 --> 01:32:00,989 grandparents house that night and we had 1836 01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:03,840 a family meeting in the dining room of 1837 01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:07,530 my parent grandparents house and as a 1838 01:32:13,370 --> 01:32:10,650 family we talked about it and had to 1839 01:32:17,090 --> 01:32:13,380 decide what to do next should Betty and 1840 01:32:20,060 --> 01:32:17,100 Barney go public with this since the cat 1841 01:32:24,890 --> 01:32:20,070 was already out of the bag or should 1842 01:32:28,340 --> 01:32:24,900 they deny it and finally we decided as a 1843 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:28,350 family that they should go public with 1844 01:32:35,090 --> 01:32:31,650 it I was all for it at the time I was 1845 01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:35,100 guess about seventeen years old at that 1846 01:32:44,350 --> 01:32:40,130 time and and I was in favor of it I had 1847 01:32:48,890 --> 01:32:44,360 no knowledge whatsoever of what the 1848 01:32:52,250 --> 01:32:48,900 consequences would be unfortunately 1849 01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:52,260 there were consequences for going public 1850 01:32:56,720 --> 01:32:54,810 now once you had the go-ahead like 1851 01:33:00,050 --> 01:32:56,730 everybody could talk about it did you 1852 01:33:02,410 --> 01:33:00,060 talk to your friends and and did people 1853 01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:02,420 find out like at your high school and 1854 01:33:08,270 --> 01:33:05,850 treat you differently or anything well I 1855 01:33:12,460 --> 01:33:08,280 was graduating from high school then so 1856 01:33:19,570 --> 01:33:16,260 they there was a little bit of teasing 1857 01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:19,580 such as in the class prophecy I think I 1858 01:33:30,430 --> 01:33:26,570 was going to be an astronaut I really 1859 01:33:34,900 --> 01:33:30,440 had no desire to become an astronaut so 1860 01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:34,910 and Betty and Barney attended my high 1861 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:39,290 school graduation with the photographer 1862 01:33:47,020 --> 01:33:44,090 from Look magazine because John fuller 1863 01:33:51,070 --> 01:33:47,030 had gotten permission to write the first 1864 01:33:54,310 --> 01:33:51,080 book and he was writing two articles for 1865 01:33:58,810 --> 01:33:54,320 Look magazine in order to promote the 1866 01:34:01,960 --> 01:33:58,820 book and so this photographer was at my 1867 01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:01,970 high school graduation at the family 1868 01:34:09,010 --> 01:34:05,170 party after wow the interrupted journey 1869 01:34:11,290 --> 01:34:09,020 yes and Stan when is the first that you 1870 01:34:14,860 --> 01:34:11,300 heard about the did you hear about it 1871 01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:14,870 right when it became public well I read 1872 01:34:20,110 --> 01:34:16,730 the book the interrupted journey and 1873 01:34:23,710 --> 01:34:20,120 then I had a chance to meet with Betty 1874 01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:23,720 and Barney that came about rather 1875 01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:26,930 strangely I was living in Pittsburgh and 1876 01:34:32,860 --> 01:34:30,410 doing a lot of media stuff and I was on 1877 01:34:38,020 --> 01:34:32,870 the biggest radio TV station in town 1878 01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:38,030 KDKA and they told me they had had me on 1879 01:34:43,990 --> 01:34:41,210 several shows they trusted me we had a 1880 01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:44,000 good group there of professional people 1881 01:34:49,420 --> 01:34:48,290 and they told me they contacted me let 1882 01:34:52,330 --> 01:34:49,430 me know that Betty and Barney were 1883 01:34:55,390 --> 01:34:52,340 coming to town and told me where they 1884 01:34:57,190 --> 01:34:55,400 were staying which was very unusual they 1885 01:34:59,620 --> 01:34:57,200 trusted me as I say and I had called 1886 01:35:00,970 --> 01:34:59,630 them and had dinner with them and that's 1887 01:35:02,980 --> 01:35:00,980 when I met them I listened very 1888 01:35:04,660 --> 01:35:02,990 carefully to see anything that was 1889 01:35:06,790 --> 01:35:04,670 different from what was in the book you 1890 01:35:10,030 --> 01:35:06,800 know and stuff like that so I was very 1891 01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:10,040 favorably impressed and then I got 1892 01:35:15,550 --> 01:35:12,850 another way into the story 1893 01:35:16,210 --> 01:35:15,560 Marjorie fish was doing her work on the 1894 01:35:19,480 --> 01:35:16,220 starmap 1895 01:35:20,790 --> 01:35:19,490 and she asked coral Lorenzen the head of 1896 01:35:23,530 --> 01:35:20,800 the aerial phenomenon research 1897 01:35:25,990 --> 01:35:23,540 organization which was more interested 1898 01:35:29,410 --> 01:35:26,000 in the abductions than nycap was the 1899 01:35:32,410 --> 01:35:29,420 two competing major groups and quarrel 1900 01:35:34,630 --> 01:35:32,420 asked me she said Marjorie fish had 1901 01:35:36,700 --> 01:35:34,640 wanted to talk to a scientist to get 1902 01:35:39,160 --> 01:35:36,710 some help on certain aspects of the 1903 01:35:42,700 --> 01:35:39,170 starmap stuff and could she recommend 1904 01:35:44,830 --> 01:35:42,710 anybody and she recommended me so I met 1905 01:35:46,990 --> 01:35:44,840 with Marjorie I was traveling a lot and 1906 01:35:49,210 --> 01:35:47,000 had a chance to be in Toledo Ohio at 1907 01:35:53,140 --> 01:35:49,220 that time and I was the first to publish 1908 01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:53,150 about the starmap and I got a astronomy 1909 01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:53,930 magazine 1910 01:35:59,590 --> 01:35:56,090 Terry Dickinson the editor to do the 1911 01:36:01,630 --> 01:35:59,600 fine article but he did and so I was 1912 01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:01,640 heavily involved with this 1913 01:36:10,090 --> 01:36:04,400 I couldn't dodge it in other words once 1914 01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:10,100 we got started and I was so pleased in 1915 01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:13,610 the response to the starmap article was 1916 01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:15,410 great and sure there were some deep 1917 01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:17,570 bunkers around but they're always about 1918 01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:22,970 you know can't get rid of them so Kathy 1919 01:36:26,250 --> 01:36:25,130 how long ago was that we met Mike 1920 01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:26,260 goodness 1921 01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:29,600 many many years ago Stan at least 30 1922 01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:34,010 maybe maybe more well it's been a long 1923 01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:37,370 time I am Oh with Marjorie was in the 1924 01:36:48,910 --> 01:36:45,530 early 70s I believe and how could you 1925 01:36:51,660 --> 01:36:48,920 not go on with this stuff and because I 1926 01:36:54,090 --> 01:36:51,670 was lecturing so much I used the story 1927 01:36:57,220 --> 01:36:54,100 people told me their stories 1928 01:37:02,530 --> 01:36:57,230 so I became kind of a go-to guy with 1929 01:37:04,110 --> 01:37:02,540 strange stories there for you and Kathy 1930 01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:04,120 and I've been working together we found 1931 01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:13,370 we thought alike we're both Leo's but no 1932 01:37:18,490 --> 01:37:16,370 it it turns out that we're quite 1933 01:37:19,870 --> 01:37:18,500 compatible in terms of were thinking 1934 01:37:22,570 --> 01:37:19,880 about these things 1935 01:37:25,990 --> 01:37:22,580 you know I'm a physical science she's a 1936 01:37:27,670 --> 01:37:26,000 social scientist so makes a good 1937 01:37:30,250 --> 01:37:27,680 combination because they're certainly 1938 01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:30,260 both physical science and social science 1939 01:37:38,410 --> 01:37:32,450 aspects to the story to the whole 1940 01:37:40,949 --> 01:37:38,420 business now Kathy you you called in 1941 01:37:45,370 --> 01:37:40,959 when I had 1942 01:37:48,009 --> 01:37:45,380 do I want to call him a debunker or 1943 01:37:50,890 --> 01:37:48,019 someone that just wasn't buying the 1944 01:37:54,279 --> 01:37:50,900 whole Betty and Barney story 1945 01:37:57,969 --> 01:37:54,289 so what besides that was Jim James 1946 01:38:03,129 --> 01:37:57,979 McDonald not not the one in UFOs but 1947 01:38:06,100 --> 01:38:03,139 barley Hampshire so what what are some 1948 01:38:10,659 --> 01:38:06,110 of the other people saying that you've 1949 01:38:12,399 --> 01:38:10,669 had to defend you know the Betty and 1950 01:38:17,140 --> 01:38:12,409 Barney Hill story because I know you 1951 01:38:23,739 --> 01:38:17,150 wrote a blog recently about that yes I 1952 01:38:28,359 --> 01:38:23,749 did and it really started in when with 1953 01:38:34,229 --> 01:38:28,369 Philip Glass and initially his first 1954 01:38:39,459 --> 01:38:34,239 book he tried to explain it all away as 1955 01:38:41,709 --> 01:38:39,469 plasma that it was maybe plasma on the 1956 01:38:45,189 --> 01:38:41,719 power lines that Betty and Barney were 1957 01:38:46,899 --> 01:38:45,199 seeing and ball lightning and it just 1958 01:38:48,909 --> 01:38:46,909 flicked off and on and there were 1959 01:38:52,779 --> 01:38:48,919 there's these little lights so he 1960 01:38:56,350 --> 01:38:52,789 started to change the entire story and 1961 01:39:01,209 --> 01:38:56,360 he took he dissected I believe every 1962 01:39:05,169 --> 01:39:01,219 tiny bit of that story and built a new 1963 01:39:07,089 --> 01:39:05,179 false scenario that was publicized and 1964 01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:07,099 was picked up by others and 1965 01:39:11,709 --> 01:39:09,130 unfortunately was picked up by 1966 01:39:15,759 --> 01:39:11,719 scientists who did not do their homework 1967 01:39:20,379 --> 01:39:15,769 and repeated over and over and he not 1968 01:39:25,419 --> 01:39:20,389 only changed the story into a false myth 1969 01:39:29,379 --> 01:39:25,429 but he also attempted to destroy Betty 1970 01:39:33,100 --> 01:39:29,389 and Barney as people and to destroy 1971 01:39:36,279 --> 01:39:33,110 their credibility and you know Barney 1972 01:39:37,659 --> 01:39:36,289 died when he was very young he was only 1973 01:39:39,609 --> 01:39:37,669 46 years old 1974 01:39:44,620 --> 01:39:39,619 died and from massive cerebral 1975 01:39:49,330 --> 01:39:44,630 hemorrhage in February of 1969 and the 1976 01:39:50,949 --> 01:39:49,340 movie did not come out until 1975 the 1977 01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:50,959 UFO incident 1978 01:39:58,720 --> 01:39:53,210 starring James Earl Jones and a 1979 01:40:02,610 --> 01:39:58,730 dull Parsons and when that movie was 1980 01:40:07,540 --> 01:40:02,620 about to be released he wrote a letter 1981 01:40:10,630 --> 01:40:07,550 Phillip plastid stating that this was 1982 01:40:14,709 --> 01:40:10,640 now going to go out to millions of 1983 01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:14,719 people and therefore there had to be a 1984 01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:18,850 major debunking campaign against this 1985 01:40:24,130 --> 01:40:21,770 because they you did not want to 1986 01:40:27,970 --> 01:40:24,140 frighten people you wanted people to 1987 01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:27,980 think that this wasn't real and and one 1988 01:40:33,479 --> 01:40:30,290 of the things that has been repeated is 1989 01:40:38,910 --> 01:40:33,489 that there were no other witnesses and 1990 01:40:42,910 --> 01:40:38,920 I'm very very proud to say that Stanton 1991 01:40:50,020 --> 01:40:42,920 found a letter and that letter was 1992 01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:50,030 written on July 7th 1976 but it we did 1993 01:40:56,470 --> 01:40:52,880 not know about it when we wrote captured 1994 01:40:59,080 --> 01:40:56,480 I'm not sure what the date was when 1995 01:41:02,229 --> 01:40:59,090 Stanton gave it to me but I think that 1996 01:41:04,510 --> 01:41:02,239 it was in some of his papers when we 1997 01:41:08,110 --> 01:41:04,520 were writing our latest book fact 1998 01:41:11,440 --> 01:41:08,120 fiction and flying saucers but in this 1999 01:41:16,209 --> 01:41:11,450 letter it was from John luttrell to 2000 01:41:19,650 --> 01:41:16,219 Stanton and I quote luttrell wrote I can 2001 01:41:22,030 --> 01:41:19,660 recall interviewing between 12 and 14 2002 01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:22,040 different people from different 2003 01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:24,890 communities surrounding Franconia Notch 2004 01:41:30,959 --> 01:41:28,130 New Hampshire none of whom knew one 2005 01:41:34,150 --> 01:41:30,969 another but all of whom remembered 2006 01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:34,160 experiencing the same sighting at the 2007 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:37,690 same time the hills did in the same 2008 01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:42,530 location so you know maybe luttrell I 2009 01:41:48,490 --> 01:41:45,440 was angry at him for years for what he 2010 01:41:52,660 --> 01:41:48,500 did but when I found this letter I said 2011 01:41:54,060 --> 01:41:52,670 well there is one redeeming point he 2012 01:41:56,770 --> 01:41:54,070 found 2013 01:42:00,970 --> 01:41:56,780 isn't that something dependent people 2014 01:42:04,750 --> 01:42:00,980 who had all observed the same disc 2015 01:42:06,270 --> 01:42:04,760 shaped object in the same location Wow 2016 01:42:08,370 --> 01:42:06,280 no that's 2017 01:42:10,890 --> 01:42:08,380 that's definitely part of the story I 2018 01:42:13,590 --> 01:42:10,900 haven't heard I want to stay with the 2019 01:42:15,420 --> 01:42:13,600 story but I do want to ask Stan this 2020 01:42:17,580 --> 01:42:15,430 question because I know stan has talked 2021 01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:17,590 about Philip class a number of times 2022 01:42:25,410 --> 01:42:22,930 Stan what do you think motivated Philip 2023 01:42:29,850 --> 01:42:25,420 to be as strong headed 2024 01:42:31,590 --> 01:42:29,860 of a debunker as he was well I've always 2025 01:42:33,420 --> 01:42:31,600 wondered he always said he never he 2026 01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:33,430 didn't work for a three-letter agency 2027 01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:35,110 and I keep saying so tell me the four 2028 01:42:45,060 --> 01:42:42,010 letters well no I I am pretty much 2029 01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:45,070 convinced that he may have felt he had 2030 01:42:50,700 --> 01:42:47,530 to do that because he was working for 2031 01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:50,710 some agency I mean if you were gonna 2032 01:42:56,010 --> 01:42:53,410 pick somebody to attack UFOs phil was 2033 01:42:58,080 --> 01:42:56,020 ideal he was based in Washington he was 2034 01:43:00,300 --> 01:42:58,090 a senior avionics editor for Aviation 2035 01:43:06,150 --> 01:43:00,310 Week and space technology very fast 2036 01:43:08,190 --> 01:43:06,160 typist line writer an ideal man to try 2037 01:43:11,670 --> 01:43:08,200 to debunk this whole business and he 2038 01:43:14,340 --> 01:43:11,680 would stoop to and any as low as you can 2039 01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:14,350 get and you know he and I had dinner 2040 01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:16,960 together on occasion you know we 2041 01:43:22,350 --> 01:43:20,560 socialized a little bit and stuff but he 2042 01:43:25,970 --> 01:43:22,360 and I also I have to give him credit for 2043 01:43:29,190 --> 01:43:25,980 being honest about one thing one thing 2044 01:43:38,820 --> 01:43:29,200 he challenged me on the Betty and Barney 2045 01:43:44,100 --> 01:43:38,830 Hill star map work and the article he he 2046 01:43:47,700 --> 01:43:44,110 made me a bet a challenge he'd give me a 2047 01:43:53,930 --> 01:43:47,710 a hundred or was it a hundred dollars 2048 01:43:56,070 --> 01:43:53,940 each for every example I could find of 2049 01:44:00,060 --> 01:43:56,080 documents done in the same size and 2050 01:44:02,520 --> 01:44:00,070 style tonight as were used in an Air 2051 01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:02,530 Force letter about the case a very 2052 01:44:09,030 --> 01:44:06,970 important letter and he challenged me 2053 01:44:18,689 --> 01:44:09,040 and up to a maximum of ten I'll give you 2054 01:44:22,110 --> 01:44:18,699 $100 each and as it happens I found 14 2055 01:44:25,350 --> 01:44:22,120 and he and I gave him copies and an 2056 01:44:27,510 --> 01:44:25,360 invoice and he paid me and I have to 2057 01:44:29,820 --> 01:44:27,520 give him credit for paying me but he got 2058 01:44:34,350 --> 01:44:29,830 very angry when I showed a copy of his 2059 01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:34,360 cheque one of my lectures right he 2060 01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:36,010 didn't want anybody to know in other 2061 01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:39,610 words now you'd paid off but and it was 2062 01:44:46,340 --> 01:44:42,250 typical he had no basis for it he had 2063 01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:46,350 there was nine letters done in the same 2064 01:44:53,669 --> 01:44:51,040 size and style a leap type and so he 2065 01:44:55,229 --> 01:44:53,679 said what I showed was done and I could 2066 01:44:56,910 --> 01:44:55,239 type and that was no good it had to be 2067 01:44:58,860 --> 01:44:56,920 elite type bla bla bla bla 2068 01:45:01,410 --> 01:44:58,870 that's when he offered me the hundred 2069 01:45:05,310 --> 01:45:01,420 dollars each so I went to my files and 2070 01:45:07,740 --> 01:45:05,320 found 20 of the the pleco type and then 2071 01:45:11,729 --> 01:45:07,750 I went back to the archives in our 2072 01:45:13,500 --> 01:45:11,739 library and found the 14 and no question 2073 01:45:18,169 --> 01:45:13,510 I got him from there made copies sent 2074 01:45:22,229 --> 01:45:18,179 sent him copies so Phil art was a zealot 2075 01:45:23,850 --> 01:45:22,239 very much of a solid man I can't help 2076 01:45:26,490 --> 01:45:23,860 but believe he was doing work for 2077 01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:26,500 somebody but I can't prove it well it's 2078 01:45:31,650 --> 01:45:29,050 a mega game on so strong right there's 2079 01:45:33,990 --> 01:45:31,660 another situation where when I 2080 01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:34,000 interviewed Steve Pierce from the Travis 2081 01:45:41,070 --> 01:45:36,850 Walton case you know years ago he said 2082 01:45:44,130 --> 01:45:41,080 that Philip offered him $10,000 to say 2083 01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:44,140 it was a hoax now why would someone you 2084 01:45:49,070 --> 01:45:45,850 know a private person with their own 2085 01:45:52,410 --> 01:45:49,080 funding offer and if that story is true 2086 01:45:53,700 --> 01:45:52,420 why would he offer them that kind of 2087 01:45:56,250 --> 01:45:53,710 money and where would that money be 2088 01:45:57,959 --> 01:45:56,260 coming from I mean I don't think 2089 01:46:01,500 --> 01:45:57,969 somebody just goes around the money like 2090 01:46:04,890 --> 01:46:01,510 that so it was pretty well-off he wasn't 2091 01:46:11,450 --> 01:46:04,900 married until late in life he did a lot 2092 01:46:15,930 --> 01:46:11,460 of extra writing he he could afford it I 2093 01:46:19,590 --> 01:46:15,940 don't feel sorry for about that but he 2094 01:46:21,890 --> 01:46:19,600 was you know in our book fact fiction 2095 01:46:26,669 --> 01:46:21,900 and Flying Saucer as we go into Phil and 2096 01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:26,679 Donald Menzel and Edward Condon now we 2097 01:46:30,780 --> 01:46:28,810 could understand menzel Harvard 2098 01:46:32,070 --> 01:46:30,790 University professor of astronomy total 2099 01:46:34,890 --> 01:46:32,080 D bunker 2100 01:46:36,900 --> 01:46:34,900 and I discovered my proudest discovery 2101 01:46:38,310 --> 01:46:36,910 you wrote to Jack Kennedy they knew each 2102 01:46:44,130 --> 01:46:38,320 other they even had breakfast together 2103 01:46:46,610 --> 01:46:44,140 on occasions I discovered that he this 2104 01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:46,620 letter that menzo wrote to Kennedy 2105 01:46:52,350 --> 01:46:49,840 saying there's one area so frequently 2106 01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:52,360 wasn't one could present that I may be 2107 01:46:57,480 --> 01:46:55,330 able to be of assistance to you I've had 2108 01:47:01,400 --> 01:46:57,490 a longer continuous association with the 2109 01:47:03,990 --> 01:47:01,410 National Security Agency 30 years of 2110 01:47:06,390 --> 01:47:04,000 anybody when we are properly cleared to 2111 01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:06,400 each other I can tell you more that 2112 01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:09,610 Menzel had a connection with it as NSA 2113 01:47:14,700 --> 01:47:13,090 was total shock to everybody and I had 2114 01:47:16,710 --> 01:47:14,710 people in ufology told me they didn't 2115 01:47:18,630 --> 01:47:16,720 believe it I showed them the letter and 2116 01:47:20,070 --> 01:47:18,640 I got it at the Harvard archives isn't 2117 01:47:22,650 --> 01:47:20,080 there's no question about it something 2118 01:47:24,570 --> 01:47:22,660 tells me but so mental I could 2119 01:47:25,650 --> 01:47:24,580 understand he was serving his country it 2120 01:47:27,540 --> 01:47:25,660 turns out he'd been in Naval 2121 01:47:29,390 --> 01:47:27,550 Intelligence he did all kinds of highly 2122 01:47:33,330 --> 01:47:29,400 classified work that nobody knew about 2123 01:47:36,570 --> 01:47:33,340 yeah but so where's the excuse for class 2124 01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:36,580 you say yeah and Condon Condon was a 2125 01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:39,250 fine scientist as a physicist I have to 2126 01:47:44,010 --> 01:47:41,920 say that he was president American 2127 01:47:45,180 --> 01:47:44,020 Physical Society and in a different time 2128 01:47:46,980 --> 01:47:45,190 period President American Association 2129 01:47:48,900 --> 01:47:46,990 for the Advancement of science is real 2130 01:47:51,690 --> 01:47:48,910 scientists he said some very stupid 2131 01:47:54,390 --> 01:47:51,700 things though which I can't understand 2132 01:47:58,130 --> 01:47:54,400 Cathy has this down pat but what was 2133 01:48:02,610 --> 01:47:58,140 that darn stupid thing he said Cathy 2134 01:48:04,890 --> 01:48:02,620 about the travel oh my gosh Stan it's 2135 01:48:08,550 --> 01:48:04,900 been so long since I've said it now you 2136 01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:08,560 put me on the spot I think he said it is 2137 01:48:13,890 --> 01:48:11,170 safe to assume that no intelligent life 2138 01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:13,900 from elsewhere has any chance of 2139 01:48:25,460 --> 01:48:17,710 reaching our either planet or solar 2140 01:48:31,440 --> 01:48:28,530 that's just like the you know saying the 2141 01:48:34,650 --> 01:48:31,450 the lighter-than-air craft will never 2142 01:48:37,170 --> 01:48:34,660 exist you know the year before yeah so 2143 01:48:39,990 --> 01:48:37,180 let's let's get back to a Betty and 2144 01:48:42,090 --> 01:48:40,000 Barney we only have about G we only have 2145 01:48:44,910 --> 01:48:42,100 about 10 minutes left which it doesn't 2146 01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:44,920 give us too much time so 2147 01:48:52,140 --> 01:48:49,810 that Cathy wanted to ask you so after 2148 01:48:57,260 --> 01:48:52,150 they came out with us what was the 2149 01:49:04,910 --> 01:49:01,050 initially they felt that they had a lot 2150 01:49:09,300 --> 01:49:04,920 more support than they had anticipated 2151 01:49:11,939 --> 01:49:09,310 and they there was a lot of support 2152 01:49:15,050 --> 01:49:11,949 there were military people who were very 2153 01:49:18,209 --> 01:49:15,060 much interested in this and they were 2154 01:49:21,950 --> 01:49:18,219 became close to Admiral her book Knowles 2155 01:49:27,750 --> 01:49:21,960 and who had retired at that time you 2156 01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:27,760 reroute Admiral and then also Wilbert 2157 01:49:35,930 --> 01:49:31,449 Smith from the Canadian government yes 2158 01:49:39,450 --> 01:49:35,940 and and had regular meetings with these 2159 01:49:42,689 --> 01:49:39,460 officials and you know so they they 2160 01:49:45,180 --> 01:49:42,699 received a lot of support there were 2161 01:49:48,180 --> 01:49:45,190 there were actually high-level people 2162 01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:48,190 scientists and military who believed 2163 01:49:55,410 --> 01:49:51,730 their story and who wanted to learn as 2164 01:50:00,180 --> 01:49:55,420 much as they could and also for Betty 2165 01:50:04,020 --> 01:50:00,190 and Barney to learn from them about what 2166 01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:04,030 they knew so that was was very very good 2167 01:50:11,550 --> 01:50:07,410 but you know then eventually you had 2168 01:50:13,919 --> 01:50:11,560 just these debunkers I don't even like 2169 01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:13,929 to call some of them debunkers because 2170 01:50:18,510 --> 01:50:15,850 they're not taking the bunk out of 2171 01:50:21,330 --> 01:50:18,520 anything they're putting the bunk into 2172 01:50:24,090 --> 01:50:21,340 the story I like to call them dis 2173 01:50:26,550 --> 01:50:24,100 informants because that's exactly what 2174 01:50:31,919 --> 01:50:26,560 Philip Glass and some of the others are 2175 01:50:35,220 --> 01:50:31,929 doing right and so you target you said 2176 01:50:37,500 --> 01:50:35,230 that they had like people of science 2177 01:50:39,810 --> 01:50:37,510 that were actually looking and looking 2178 01:50:42,990 --> 01:50:39,820 into this and paying attention was that 2179 01:50:45,630 --> 01:50:43,000 was her I mean I don't know how science 2180 01:50:48,510 --> 01:50:45,640 can actually research anything that's 2181 01:50:51,450 --> 01:50:48,520 you know that's elusive the way it was 2182 01:50:53,970 --> 01:50:51,460 but were they are map was one I see 2183 01:50:57,630 --> 01:50:53,980 uh-huh there were also a lot of 2184 01:50:58,530 --> 01:50:57,640 questions about the craft I really 2185 01:51:01,200 --> 01:50:58,540 described 2186 01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:01,210 the craft they wanted to learn all they 2187 01:51:08,490 --> 01:51:04,690 could about that craft know about the 2188 01:51:11,340 --> 01:51:08,500 craft what type of information did they 2189 01:51:14,910 --> 01:51:11,350 retain about that I mean did I know the 2190 01:51:17,580 --> 01:51:14,920 windows and you know the creatures one 2191 01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:17,590 wasn't there what did this come out and 2192 01:51:23,490 --> 01:51:20,410 hypnosis or was this something that they 2193 01:51:26,550 --> 01:51:23,500 remembered were like real time well 2194 01:51:32,100 --> 01:51:26,560 Barney remembered observing nonhumans 2195 01:51:36,050 --> 01:51:32,110 real time and also the craft as it 2196 01:51:41,130 --> 01:51:36,060 hovered about fifty feet away from him 2197 01:51:43,440 --> 01:51:41,140 but then the part that many scientists 2198 01:51:44,970 --> 01:51:43,450 were really interested in is not only 2199 01:51:47,730 --> 01:51:44,980 that it hovered and it didn't make a 2200 01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:47,740 sound and and the flight patterns and 2201 01:51:56,340 --> 01:51:51,970 all of that but also the interior of the 2202 01:51:58,890 --> 01:51:56,350 craft what they saw what when it landed 2203 01:52:02,570 --> 01:51:58,900 what was it sitting on how did they get 2204 01:52:08,730 --> 01:52:02,580 on to the craft it was divided up like a 2205 01:52:11,250 --> 01:52:08,740 piece of pie with a cylinder going 2206 01:52:13,740 --> 01:52:11,260 through the center it seemed so there 2207 01:52:16,350 --> 01:52:13,750 were many questions about that the 2208 01:52:19,170 --> 01:52:16,360 lighting what was the lighting like 2209 01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:19,180 there were no light fixtures they the 2210 01:52:24,300 --> 01:52:21,610 the kind of bluish white light seemed to 2211 01:52:26,910 --> 01:52:24,310 come through the walls that all of the 2212 01:52:29,190 --> 01:52:26,920 walls were illuminated Wow 2213 01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:29,200 so you know now I know you mentioned 2214 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:31,690 there were buzzing noises did the craft 2215 01:52:37,530 --> 01:52:33,850 was the craft actually making that 2216 01:52:40,620 --> 01:52:37,540 buzzing noise as far as they knew it's 2217 01:52:43,530 --> 01:52:40,630 yes it seemed that the craft was at that 2218 01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:43,540 point hovering over the car as Barney 2219 01:52:49,890 --> 01:52:45,970 was speeding down the highway trying to 2220 01:52:52,500 --> 01:52:49,900 get away from it and the the buzzing 2221 01:52:55,740 --> 01:52:52,510 sounds were appeared to be striking the 2222 01:52:59,010 --> 01:52:55,750 trunk of the vehicle and that is the 2223 01:53:02,700 --> 01:52:59,020 area where there were those shiny spots 2224 01:53:06,300 --> 01:53:02,710 the caused a compass needle to spin and 2225 01:53:09,780 --> 01:53:06,310 spin indicating as Bruce Maccabee dr. 2226 01:53:12,390 --> 01:53:09,790 Bruce Maccabee wrote in the foreword to 2227 01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:12,400 our book counter 2228 01:53:19,290 --> 01:53:16,690 rotating magnetic fields and according 2229 01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:19,300 to MUFON they have seen this in other 2230 01:53:26,130 --> 01:53:25,210 cases now when the movie came out what 2231 01:53:29,090 --> 01:53:26,140 was the name of the movie wasn't 2232 01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:29,100 captured well you know it was the UFO 2233 01:53:36,149 --> 01:53:31,810 incidents UFO incident I actually saw 2234 01:53:38,370 --> 01:53:36,159 that on TV when that came out and and I 2235 01:53:42,030 --> 01:53:38,380 was I remember feeling like chilled 2236 01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:42,040 about it how did that change their life 2237 01:53:49,140 --> 01:53:44,050 after that came on me and that I mean 2238 01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:49,150 that's really going public was Barney 2239 01:54:00,899 --> 01:53:52,090 was deceased at that time he died in 2240 01:54:04,350 --> 01:54:00,909 1969 so that was it was Betty who was 2241 01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:04,360 very I guess pleased that the movie was 2242 01:54:11,310 --> 01:54:08,050 made but at the same time the movie gave 2243 01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:11,320 the impression that they remembered 2244 01:54:16,140 --> 01:54:14,170 absolutely nothing except for a light in 2245 01:54:18,169 --> 01:54:16,150 the sky and that it was all came out 2246 01:54:21,419 --> 01:54:18,179 under hypnosis so that was very 2247 01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:21,429 confusing to the American public they 2248 01:54:27,090 --> 01:54:24,489 didn't fully understand what did happen 2249 01:54:30,360 --> 01:54:27,100 but it was done that way in order to 2250 01:54:32,370 --> 01:54:30,370 leave a question in the public's mind so 2251 01:54:36,300 --> 01:54:32,380 that the opportunity was there for them 2252 01:54:40,010 --> 01:54:36,310 to doubt that it did happen and James 2253 01:54:43,110 --> 01:54:40,020 Earl Jones did not want to have a movie 2254 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:43,120 that would frighten the public really 2255 01:54:48,689 --> 01:54:45,850 what Betty explained to me yes how about 2256 01:54:50,580 --> 01:54:48,699 that Stan have you ever yourself have 2257 01:54:56,910 --> 01:54:50,590 you ever listened to the tapes of the 2258 01:55:00,360 --> 01:54:56,920 hypnosis yeah and I met Betty and Barney 2259 01:55:04,169 --> 01:55:00,370 I mean I'm a talk to Barney I was very 2260 01:55:07,800 --> 01:55:04,179 impressed and particularly with regard 2261 01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:07,810 to the starmap stuff I divided trying to 2262 01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:09,850 figure out what was going on I mean the 2263 01:55:15,860 --> 01:55:12,850 key point to me was my first interaction 2264 01:55:20,310 --> 01:55:15,870 with them when we had dinner and stuff I 2265 01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:20,320 trusted them I was very favorably 2266 01:55:25,560 --> 01:55:23,050 impressed with them I mean people tend 2267 01:55:28,500 --> 01:55:25,570 to forget that he's a social worker 2268 01:55:32,609 --> 01:55:28,510 you know she's not somebody was sweeping 2269 01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:32,619 the floor I and in that position she has 2270 01:55:38,250 --> 01:55:35,530 to talk all kinds of things to all kinds 2271 01:55:41,819 --> 01:55:38,260 of people and when their confidence and 2272 01:55:44,669 --> 01:55:41,829 be truthful and careful and trustworthy 2273 01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:44,679 and all that sort of stuff I was very 2274 01:55:50,569 --> 01:55:46,810 impressed and remember Barney was on the 2275 01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:50,579 governor Civil Rights Commission and 2276 01:56:00,780 --> 01:55:55,090 that he went with Barney to was at 2277 01:56:02,970 --> 01:56:00,790 Lyndon Johnson's I did as well we were I 2278 01:56:05,399 --> 01:56:02,980 helped on that campaign too and the 2279 01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:05,409 three of us were invited to Lyndon 2280 01:56:12,780 --> 01:56:09,690 Johnson's inauguration Wow how did their 2281 01:56:15,859 --> 01:56:12,790 careers how did this affect her their 2282 01:56:18,959 --> 01:56:15,869 careers when all this came out Cathy 2283 01:56:21,290 --> 01:56:18,969 well the interesting thing is that they 2284 01:56:25,770 --> 01:56:21,300 were not fired 2285 01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:25,780 Betty's supervisor was interviewed by 2286 01:56:31,950 --> 01:56:29,050 the media and he said that Betty was a 2287 01:56:34,169 --> 01:56:31,960 very fine social worker and that he 2288 01:56:36,330 --> 01:56:34,179 wished he had more just like her wow 2289 01:56:40,399 --> 01:56:36,340 that's great so that was great she 2290 01:56:45,629 --> 01:56:40,409 received a promotion to supervisor and 2291 01:56:48,780 --> 01:56:45,639 Barney did fine in his career as well so 2292 01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:48,790 it didn't seem to be the problem that 2293 01:56:58,350 --> 01:56:51,610 they had anticipated it would be what 2294 01:57:00,240 --> 01:56:58,360 about the ridicule part of it the 2295 01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:00,250 ridicule from the debunkers you know 2296 01:57:06,030 --> 01:57:02,650 once I said to Betty why don't you just 2297 01:57:09,930 --> 01:57:06,040 sue for a defamation of character 2298 01:57:13,260 --> 01:57:09,940 hmm and and she said she just said why 2299 01:57:15,990 --> 01:57:13,270 do I want to spend my money and and go 2300 01:57:21,419 --> 01:57:16,000 through all of that you know emotional 2301 01:57:21,839 --> 01:57:21,429 distress that's right to take them to 2302 01:57:25,379 --> 01:57:21,849 court 2303 01:57:28,620 --> 01:57:25,389 she said they you know they're they're 2304 01:57:30,859 --> 01:57:28,630 obviously lying but you just have to say 2305 01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:30,869 they're entitled to their own opinion 2306 01:57:36,180 --> 01:57:33,130 yeah that's I mean you can't change 2307 01:57:37,290 --> 01:57:36,190 someone's mind when they have that you 2308 01:57:38,410 --> 01:57:37,300 know when they have their mind already 2309 01:57:40,210 --> 01:57:38,420 made up 2310 01:57:43,030 --> 01:57:40,220 you know she had the right attitude I 2311 01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:43,040 believe but so we're at the end of the 2312 01:57:50,650 --> 01:57:46,370 show and stand if you would can you give 2313 01:57:54,130 --> 01:57:50,660 out your website address yes triple w 2314 01:57:58,420 --> 01:57:54,140 dot Stanton Friedman dot-com that's Fri 2315 01:58:03,190 --> 01:57:58,430 e DM aen dot-com and it lists my books 2316 01:58:05,140 --> 01:58:03,200 tells you how to reach me and you know 2317 01:58:07,870 --> 01:58:05,150 we're interested in hearing more stories 2318 01:58:11,470 --> 01:58:07,880 - from people who have had experiences 2319 01:58:14,470 --> 01:58:11,480 but it and there's the book captured of 2320 01:58:16,770 --> 01:58:14,480 course which has the the update on the 2321 01:58:19,900 --> 01:58:16,780 interrupted journey by how many years 2322 01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:19,910 and a lot more information yes then 2323 01:58:27,370 --> 01:58:21,890 using the interrupted journey that 2324 01:58:31,810 --> 01:58:27,380 stopped in 1966 and this goes all the 2325 01:58:37,870 --> 01:58:31,820 way up to 2004 Wow in Kathy your website 2326 01:58:44,830 --> 01:58:37,880 please yes it's Kathleen ka th le en - 2327 01:58:48,340 --> 01:58:44,840 or - Mardon MA rden comm and all of our 2328 01:58:52,870 --> 01:58:48,350 books are for sale on my website you can 2329 01:58:56,110 --> 01:58:52,880 also visit the upcoming events to see 2330 01:59:00,370 --> 01:58:56,120 where I will be and where Stan will be 2331 01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:00,380 with me for on many of these so and also 2332 01:59:05,830 --> 01:59:02,810 some free articles that you can read on 2333 01:59:08,410 --> 01:59:05,840 my research and on the hills excellent 2334 01:59:10,540 --> 01:59:08,420 great well I will be seeing you in a 2335 01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:10,550 nice warm place in Phoenix Arizona in 2336 01:59:16,090 --> 01:59:13,810 about a month and a half yes nice and 2337 01:59:18,910 --> 01:59:16,100 excellent thanks so much and happy New 2338 01:59:22,540 --> 01:59:18,920 Year to you both and I really really 2339 01:59:24,430 --> 01:59:22,550 enjoyed this evening show we did well 2340 01:59:26,860 --> 01:59:24,440 thank you and happy New Year to you 2341 01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:26,870 alright and all the listeners all right 2342 01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:29,690 we'll talk soon bye bye bye bye right 2343 01:59:36,700 --> 01:59:32,930 alright everyone so that's it for the 2344 01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:36,710 show thank you so much and we'll be back 2345 01:59:40,750 --> 01:59:38,570 next week I'm pretty excited how the 2346 01:59:44,440 --> 01:59:40,760 timing worked out on this we'll be back 2347 01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:44,450 next week with John Alexander dr. John 2348 01:59:49,700 --> 01:59:48,650 Alexander so again it'll be a great show 2349 01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:49,710 and 2350 01:59:53,870 --> 01:59:52,320 looking forward to it anyone can support 2351 01:59:55,850 --> 01:59:53,880 the show even if you're listening on 2352 01:59:58,330 --> 01:59:55,860 YouTube or the Dark Matter digital 2353 02:00:01,010 --> 01:59:58,340 network all you have to do is go to 2354 02:00:03,530 --> 02:00:01,020 podcast UFO comm the informations there 2355 02:00:05,270 --> 02:00:03,540 for two dollars or more a month we'd 2356 02:00:07,940 --> 02:00:05,280 appreciate it we have a lot of expenses 2357 02:00:10,340 --> 02:00:07,950 to run the show and we do have someone 2358 02:00:13,729 --> 02:00:10,350 coming on to help us with the production 2359 02:00:16,780 --> 02:00:13,739 of the shows thanks again and remember 2360 02:00:22,100 --> 02:00:16,790 to keep your eyes to the sky